Questions about ToS Scroll of Set and reading lists

[L.Keane]

Hello everyone,

This is a question to current members of the ToS or those who are in a position to know about current ToS publications policies. I have emailed ([email protected]) for information but I fully realise that the ToS must have a myriad of emails to wade through so I thought, given the generally high level of posts in this forum, I would try here for information as well.

I'm looking for two pieces of information:

First, is the Scroll of Set a private publication of the Temple for initiates only and if so, are there occasions when permission is given for the citation of the Scroll in academic papers?

Second, is the ToS reading list commonly available on the interenet the "official" reading list or is there a more up-to-date list and if so is there a possibility of non-initiates obtaining that list?

Any information would be most welcome.

All best,

Lloyd

 

[Sireal]

Greetings Lloyd

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for two pieces of information:

>First, is the Scroll of Set a private publication of the Temple for initiates only and if so, are there occasions when permission is given for the citation of the Scroll in academic papers?

The Scroll is a private publication of the Temple of Set and its contents are copyright so you would need to contact the ED and request permission to quote.

[/quote]>Second, is the ToS reading list commonly available on the interenet the "official" reading list or is there a more up-to-date list and if so is there a possibility of non-initiates obtaining that list?[/quote]

The available RL on the net is an old one- 1988 I believe, but don't quote me on that, it would be difficult to obtain a current RL unless you know a Setian personally.

 

[L.Keane]

Greetings Lloyd



The Scroll is a private publication of the Temple of Set and its contents are copyright so you would need to contact the ED and request permission to quote.

>Second, is the ToS reading list commonly available on the interenet the "official" reading list or is there a more up-to-date list and if so is there a possibility of non-initiates obtaining that list?

The available RL on the net is an old one- 1988 I believe, but don't quote me on that, it would be difficult to obtain a current RL unless you know a Setian personally.

It is as I suspected, thank you very much for your prompt reply Sireal.

 

[Daelach]

Remember that the copryright does NOT protect secrecy, only commercial interests. So quoting from copyrighted works cannot be stopped using the copyright as long as it is still quoting and does not grow to a full-quote, meaning a distribution. While it is nice to ask the copyright owner to allow citation, this is not necessary.

You see, when you quote from a book which is publicly available, it is still likely to be copright-protected. So if copyright inhibited quotation, no quotation at all would be possible except from works where the author has been dead for some decades. Quoting is NOT copying.

However, the problem in an academic paper is that the source material is not publicly available, so readers cannot read the source themselves e.g. for checking the context of a specific quote. This would clearly lessen the academic value of such sources, maybe even to the point of being unusable.

 

[L.Keane]

Remember that the copryright does NOT protect secrecy, only commercial interests. So quoting from copyrighted works cannot be stopped using the copyright as long as it is still quoting and does not grow to a full-quote, meaning a distribution. While it is nice to ask the copyright owner to allow citation, this is not necessary.

You see, when you quote from a book which is publicly available, it is still likely to be copright-protected. So if copyright inhibited quotation, no quotation at all would be possible except from works where the author has been dead for some decades. Quoting is NOT copying.

However, the problem in an academic paper is that the source material is not publicly available, so readers cannot read the source themselves e.g. for checking the context of a specific quote. This would clearly lessen the academic value of such sources, maybe even to the point of being unusable.

Hello Daelach,

You are, of course, right about copyright vs. quoting. However, when I research esoteric traditions I try to follow an ethical standard, if possible, that includes not using initiatory material, even if available to non-initiates. I'm not saying people are unethical for using these types of sources only that for me and my research I try to avoid it.

 

[Sireal]

Hello Daelach,

You are, of course, right about copyright vs. quoting. However, when I research esoteric traditions I try to follow an ethical standard, if possible, that includes not using initiatory material, even if available to non-initiates. I'm not saying people are unethical for using these types of sources only that for me and my research I try to avoid it.

It has been my experience that anyone approaching the ToS with requests to quote Setian material that is found in the public domain, be it put there by us or disgruntled ex-members is not refused as long as a) permission is granted, b)the material is used ethically and c) it is supported by acknowledging the original authors . I like your approach to this matter. Ethical acquisition of knowledge makes quite a difference when dealing with such sensitive subject matter, very Setian of you.

 

[Daelach]

Hello Sireal,

b)the material is used ethically

What exactly does this mean in this specific context?

 

[Sireal]

Hi Daelach

Hello Sireal,

b)the material is used ethically

What exactly does this mean in this specific context?

That you are using it with the integrity of scholarly pursuit for exactly for your stated reasons.

 

[Daelach]

Hello Sireal,

That you are using it with the integrity of scholarly pursuit

Even academic research does not happen in some sort of vacuum, but within the real world. Seeking just for some kind of "truth" is difficult when it comes to negotiating third-party funds..

 

[Sireal]

Hello Sireal,



Even academic research does not happen in some sort of vacuum, but within the real world. Seeking just for some kind of "truth" is difficult when it comes to negotiating third-party funds..

Daelach,

I agree, though I wouldn't call it "truth' more an integrity of a specific "quality" that is one of the hallmarks of Setian Initiation.

When a magical quality in life is sought it will always be met with its equal (sometimes that equal is a bit more than equal. Strengthening the human psyche is done through acute awareness to the quality one brings to ones own Work whatever that may be, seeking such a quality in my own interactions is one way I use the tools of Initiation.

Regardless how the information may end up being used, it is the "exchange" and the integrity of its "quality" that are the actual currency being traded, not some paperwork that is in itself a potent tool for change if an appropriate awareness is brought to bear on it which again will match the intellect and level of integrity that is brought into being in its acquisition, hopefully this exchange takes place in fertile ground and furthers the Work and assists folks in becoming more than they thought possible, not for the purposes of crowing an opinion (mind you, any press is still press) or value judgment from un/ill-informed minds-a hallmark of true ignorance.

 

[Apion]

Regardless how the information may end up being used, it is the "exchange" and the integrity of its "quality" that are the actual currency being traded, not some paperwork

A great differentiation!