Power

[Sir Doom]

So, I've been meaning to post this pretty much since I signed up for the forum but I am shy when it comes to speaking openly about my core beliefs. To allow scrutiny of a belief is to make that belief vulnerable to destruction. In a vast majority of cases I welcome this, as it is a goal of mine to arrive at the most proper conclusions that I can manage but I try to take special care of the most core beliefs despite my awareness of how hypocritical that is.

Anyway, without further adieu... Power, and my pseudo-philosophical blathering about it.

First, to define power. What I mean when I say, "Power." is the ability to control reality. This incorporates power such us electricity and gasoline which we use to provide comfort and utility to our lives, as well as things like knowledge and political power that we use to manipulate each other and our environment. All of these things enable each of us to manipulate reality into the reality that we want it to be as opposed to the reality that IS. Thus, each of these things is a form of power.

What I believe about life (and that's us and the other animals and even plants, too) is that regardless of each individual desire that leads to an exertion of power, every desire can additionally be reduced to an acquisition of more power, or at the very least a preservation of power already acquired. Because of this, I believe this is actually the very purpose of life. I believe that everything we do is in furtherance of this underlying goal, regardless of how we dress it up.

Now, what I realize is that a vast majority of human beings are not operating on this equation (I am switching to humans exclusively at this point since I don't really know the minds of slugs or parsnips). What we operate on is our desires. We want a thing, we get a thing. But I believe that under that desire and encompassing that desire is the ultimate desire for power. A greater manipulation of reality than previously held. This is why we want a better job, a nicer house, a bigger TV, a bigger family, more friends, public awareness, greater knowledge, greater understanding, or whatever it is that we want. It's always to get more power or to keep the power we already have.

I want to note at this point that we do not necessarily gain power for ourselves by our actions, but even granting power to others is truly an attempt to grant more power to ourselves. Its a concession. We allow our fellow humans and enable our fellow humans to gain power because this, in turn, gains power or preserves power for ourselves. More for them is not a concern. Any for us is. The most for us is. The most powerful outcome is what we desire.

Additionally, I believe that morality can be defined by examining this transfer of power. I believe that a person that works to increase power is moral and one that works to decrease power is immoral. We grant our power to those that lead us, and we expect to be rewarded with more power in return. And we are. And those that do not deliver are those we consider immoral. Those that exploit our power to their personal ends with no regard for our collective power are those we consider immoral. A person that gains power for themselves at the expense of the collective have really lost power for themselves as their power is derived from us to begin with. They would gain more by enabling the collective. I believe that this is as close to objective morality as we will ever get.

In conclusion, I arrived at this particular belief some time ago, and have been operating on it since. I think that the course of my life has been profoundly impacted by my recognition of this belief and that impact has been overwhelmingly positive. I find that examining the actions and words of my fellow humans through the filter of their desire for power enables me to not only afford myself the very same desired power, but also enables me to enable them towards the same.

So that's as smart as I get, I suppose. Feel free to beat me up over this. That's sort of the point, after all.

 

[Quintessence]

You know, I've been waiting for you to post something like this. I'd fruball you, but apparently I can't. I'll have a more thoughtful response later (where I will probably pretend that I'm not a hard determinist, otherwise your definition of power is nonsensical), but for now I'd just like to say thanks for putting this up for us.

 

[savagewind]

First, to define power. What I mean when I say, "Power." is the ability to control reality.

What I believe about life (and that's us and the other animals and even plants, too) is that regardless of each individual desire that leads to an exertion of power, every desire can additionally be reduced to an acquisition of more power, or at the very least a preservation of power already acquired. Because of this, I believe this is actually the very purpose of life. I believe that everything we do is in furtherance of this underlying goal, regardless of how we dress it up.

I think it is best to save up the ability to control reality for when it is most needed, which is usually in the future. And to protect what power a person has already acquired is the way of Yehoshua I believe.

 

[Sir Doom]

I think it is best to save up the ability to control reality for when it is most needed, which is usually in the future. And to protect what power a person has already acquired is the way of Yehoshua I believe.

Necessity is the illusion. There is only desire. I don't need to eat. I only want to live.

 

[savagewind]

Necessity is the illusion. There is only desire. I don't need to eat. I only want to live.

OK. Then I shall rephrase it to read saved until it is desired to be spent.

 

[Sir Doom]

OK. Then I shall rephrase it to read saved until it is desired to be spent.

Just so.

 

[atanu]

...
First, to define power. What I mean when I say, "Power." is the ability to control reality. This incorporates power such us electricity and gasoline which we use to provide comfort and utility to our lives, as well as things like knowledge and political power that we use to manipulate each other and our environment. All of these things enable each of us to manipulate reality into the reality that we want it to be as opposed to the reality that IS. Thus, each of these things is a form of power. ....

Why we want to manipulate reality as per our individual (or group/soceital/universal) want/s? What is the fundamental motivation for that?

 

[savagewind]

Why we want to manipulate reality as per our individual (or group/soceital/universal) want/s? What is the fundamental motivation for that?

Do you believe the whole world is as it should be atanu? If some of it is not as it should be, then why should someone not be motivated to change it?

Blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy. Matthew 5:7

 

[atanu]

Do you believe the whole world is as it should be atanu? If some of it is not as it should be, then why should someone not be motivated to change it?

Blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy. Matthew 5:7

1. The world is perfect as it is without help from ego-s.
2. Assuming that it is not, then who it is really that is motivated ? And why?

 

[savagewind]

1. The world is perfect as it is without help from ego-s.
2. Assuming that it is not, then who it is really that is motivated ? And why?

1.How is the world perfect?
2.I think you mean who really are unmotivated. Then your question would make sense to me. Christ teaches motivation. Why do people remain unmotivated? They won't listen to Yehoshua. Why not? They won't listen for a seemingly good reason. They don't want conflict.

 

[bobhikes]

I like it well thought out and based on your life experiences probably true

My life experiences being different, I have a problem with your definition of power- the ability to control reality.

First problem would be with control and second problem would be with reality.

I would need a definition of both I could support because my first thoughts are that you can't control reality.

 

[atanu]

1.How is the world perfect?
--

To whom is the world imperfect? Is the imperfect world apart from the perceiver's mind?

 

[atanu]

I like it well thought out and based on your life experiences probably true

My life experiences being different, I have a problem with your definition of power- the ability to control reality.

First problem would be with control and second problem would be with reality.

I would need a definition of both I could support because my first thoughts are that you can't control reality.

I agree.

 

[savagewind]

To whom is the world imperfect? Is the imperfect world apart from the perceiver's mind?

To the orphan and the widow the world is imperfect. Let's start there.

 

[Willamena]

To the orphan and the widow the world is imperfect. Let's start there.

I suspect, rather, that to you to the orphan and the widow the world is imperfect.

 

[savagewind]

I suspect, rather, that to you to the orphan and the widow the world is imperfect.

Actually no. I think it is more accurate to say to me and James and according to James, God too, the world is not perfect for the orphans and widows.

[Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.[/I] James 1:27

What is Your definition of "perfect"? I think perfect means good. I suppose I am wrong. What does it mean please?

 

[Sir Doom]

Why we want to manipulate reality as per our individual (or group/soceital/universal) want/s? What is the fundamental motivation for that?

We manipulate reality so that we can manipulate even more reality. If there is something beyond that, I am unaware of it.

1. The world is perfect as it is without help from ego-s.

There is no world without egos. Thus there is no perfect world without egos. There is only this world with egos, perfect or otherwise.

2. Assuming that it is not, then who it is really that is motivated ? And why?

Assuming that what is not what? I don't understand the question.

I like it well thought out and based on your life experiences probably true

My life experiences being different, I have a problem with your definition of power- the ability to control reality.

First problem would be with control and second problem would be with reality.

I would need a definition of both I could support because my first thoughts are that you can't control reality.

Control would be intentional manipulation. Reality would be anything and everything that exists.

 

[Straw Dog]

Hey Doom,

What I believe about life (and that's us and the other animals and even plants, too) is that regardless of each individual desire that leads to an exertion of power, every desire can additionally be reduced to an acquisition of more power, or at the very least a preservation of power already acquired. Because of this, I believe this is actually the very purpose of life. I believe that everything we do is in furtherance of this underlying goal, regardless of how we dress it up.

Additionally, I believe that morality can be defined by examining this transfer of power. I believe that a person that works to increase power is moral and one that works to decrease power is immoral. We grant our power to those that lead us, and we expect to be rewarded with more power in return. And we are. And those that do not deliver are those we consider immoral. Those that exploit our power to their personal ends with no regard for our collective power are those we consider immoral. A person that gains power for themselves at the expense of the collective have really lost power for themselves as their power is derived from us to begin with. They would gain more by enabling the collective. I believe that this is as close to objective morality as we will ever get.

I don't think you're wrong about many people valuing power and self-enhancement. Power is maintained through security, conformity, and tradition. I believe that this only represents half of human values, however.

On the most basic level, people tend to pursue personal gratification and pleasure. People also value novelty, challenge, freedom of thought and action, social justice, and the preservation and enhancement of the wellfare of others in one's social circle. So I believe different people are driven by more than one fundamental value and that some values are opposed to others (compare power with universalism).

 

[savagewind]

To whom is the world imperfect? Is the imperfect world apart from the perceiver's mind?

Please define your definition of perfect.

 

[bobhikes]

Control would be intentional manipulation. Reality would be anything and everything that exists.

I would point you to the Tao. Which the path of life is to go with the flow. Intentional manipulation will get you nowhere. There is a large group of people in the world that follow this.