One reason I care about religion

[JustWondering]

Sometimes I see theists on RF ask atheists and agnostics why they care about religion so much. One of the primary reasons for me is that the top two religions today believe that their god is going to bring the world to a violent end. So for the believers of these religions there is no point in preserving or protecting a world that is ultimately doomed. Kind of a bleak way of looking at things for me.

[youtube]jcMLMIrfRO0[/youtube]
Armagedon and self-fulfilling prophecies - YouTube

 

[Sunstone]

Are you arguing that all believers of those religions think there is no point in preserving the world? I don't suppose you are, but I just want to make sure.

 

[Tristesse]

Are you arguing that all believers of those religions think there is no point in preserving the world? I don't suppose you are, but I just want to make sure.

Well, I would assume that if you are not one of the religious people who believes that, then he's probably not talking about you.

 

[ChristineES]

You have to find out what the ultimate goal of each religion is before you can make any judgments on it. There are a great number of different religions, so we would have to have a working knowledge of each of them before we can find out what each of the ultimate goals are.
For Christianity, it is about finding reconciliation with God through Jesus- and worshiping God. We also have to be as loving as possible to others- even those not of our faith and that is part of reconciling with God. And there is more.
Some religions deal with ultimate enlightenment- although, not being part of that faith, I would only say that as an outsider, looking in. And other faiths have different goals

In my view, protecting the world is part of my faith.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, I would assume that if you are not one of the religious people who believes that, then he's probably not talking about you.

That may be true, but it is also irrelevant, isn't it?

 

[fantome profane]

You have to find out what the ultimate goal of each religion is before you can make any judgments on it.

No, you really don't.

 

[Quintessence]

No, you really don't.

True, but it's certainly going to be a less-informed judgement.

Here's a question: assuming the claim that the top two religions believe their god is going to create an armageddon is true, to what extent does this belief actually influence how they live their lives? The content of a belief does not necessarily correlate to its influence on behavior. Even if someone beliefs this, it may have no functional impact on how they act in life whatsoever.

 

[ChristineES]

No, you really don't.

True, but would it be a totally fair judgment?

 

[arthra]

Just wondering wrote:

Sometimes I see theists on RF ask atheists and agnostics why they care about religion so much. One of the primary reasons for me is that the top two religions today believe that their god is going to bring the world to a violent end. So for the believers of these religions there is no point in preserving or protecting a world that is ultimately doomed. Kind of a bleak way of looking at things for me.


My comment:

Just because a lot of people think that the world is gonna end violently doesn't mean it's true... there was a report recently that there is actually less violence from war than in the previous twentieth century.. Thanks be to God we have not had a global war as in WWI and WWII.. where millions perished.

See:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html

I liked the video you selected on Armageddo... Har Megeddo is an ancient site roughly south east of Mount Carmel range..

Armageddon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only battle in recent times that occurred around there was in 1918...Thousands of soldiers from the Ottoman forces and the British under Allenby met there and it was a major defeat for the Ottoman Empire...after that Aleppo and Damascus fell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Megiddo_(1918)

I have more confidence today than ever before inmy life (and I was born in WWII... my father was in that war...and later Korean conflict and still later Vietnam) that we are on threshhold of a new world civilization where war for the most part will be abandoned...

 

[JustWondering]

The content of a belief does not necessarily correlate to its influence on behavior. Even if someone beliefs this, it may have no functional impact on how they act in life whatsoever.

When people believe that their all-powerful god has humanity's future all planned out it does effect their behavior. How many people do you know that actually think about the future and plan for it? Most people don't want to think about the unpleasant possibilities that the future may hold for them. Believing in a all-powerful god that has everything planned out already gives them the perfect excuse not to worry or plan for the future.

 

[JustWondering]

I have more confidence today than ever before inmy life (and I was born in WWII... my father was in that war...and later Korean conflict and still later Vietnam) that we are on threshhold of a new world civilization where war for the most part will be abandoned...

That would be nice. However, humanity thrives on conflict. There would have to be some big changes for this new peaceful world civilization to come into existance.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Save that the Battle of Armageddon isn't future, but past history!

It took place near the end of WWI--1918 to be exact--when the British General Allenby defeated the Turks on the Plain of Megiddo (aka "Armageddon") near Haifa, Israel.

This had the added benefit of protecting local religionists, as he explained in a telegram to London.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[arthra]

That would be nice. However, humanity thrives on conflict. There would have to be some big changes for this new peaceful world civilization to come into existance.

Indeed...and the changes they are upon us!..

Maybe you're a little young to know about this but away back around 1964 there was a great song sung by Bob Dylan!


[youtube]mYQZSDOWwww[/youtube]
The Times They Are A-Changin - A Bob Dylan Song - My cover version - YouTube

 

[Iti oj]

ehhh i care because i care about people and nature and society and culture and lol damn my interest in all things human

 

[Quintessence]

When people believe that their all-powerful god has humanity's future all planned out it does effect their behavior. How many people do you know that actually think about the future and plan for it? Most people don't want to think about the unpleasant possibilities that the future may hold for them. Believing in a all-powerful god that has everything planned out already gives them the perfect excuse not to worry or plan for the future.

I don't mean to suggest beliefs have no impact, but I think we need to be careful about making assumptions regarding how belief translates into action and what the beliefs behind people's actions actually are. I highly doubt that the reason why most people generally fail to plan for the future has to do with belief in this specific kind of deity. It seems to me that evolution has primed us to concern ourselves primarily with what is happening now or in the recent future rather than in the long term. After all, planning for ten years from now is pretty meaningless if you don't have enough food for the next week.

 

[JustWondering]

I don't mean to suggest beliefs have no impact, but I think we need to be careful about making assumptions regarding how belief translates into action and what the beliefs behind people's actions actually are. I highly doubt that the reason why most people generally fail to plan for the future has to do with belief in this specific kind of deity. It seems to me that evolution has primed us to concern ourselves primarily with what is happening now or in the recent future rather than in the long term. After all, planning for ten years from now is pretty meaningless if you don't have enough food for the next week.

Being short sighted is a common human failing I see often. However, some religions can enable short-sightedness and irrational behavior. Which was the point of my OP. I'm certainly not claiming that all of humanities ills stem from religion. However, our species has the capablity of wiping out all life on this planet. Do you think continuing to let ancient myths and superstitions influence our decisions is wise? Jesus had some good teachings about treating others with respect, not being greedy, and encouraged peace. Jesus also taught that if you didn't worship as he said you'd be thrown into hell on judgement day. Do we really need christianity (or similar religions) to tell us to treat other human beings with the same respect we want to be treated with? I think we are intelligent and mature enough at this point in our development that we can leave religion and superstition behind.

 

[Quintessence]

You have a... peculiar understanding of the role of religious beliefs/practices in individual lives and societies. Insinuating that mature/intelligent people would (or should) abandon such things or that leaving such beliefs behind is more developed is... well... I'm just going to leave that hang. I'm not in the mood to argue the point.

 

[fantome profane]

True, but would it be a totally fair judgment?

I honestly don't think that the ultimate goal of a religion is really the best basis on which to judge a religion. Perhaps it is a factor, but certainly not the most important one. I am sure that virtually all religions have laudable goals, but frankly I really don't care all that much about their goals. What concerns me more is their actions and the effects they actually have.