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Metaphorical or historical?

Is a spiritual or literal interpretation of scripture more profound?

  • Spiritual

    Votes: 8 80.0%
  • Literal, historical

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Total voters
    10

raw_thought

Well-Known Member
What is more important, the spiritual message or historical accuracy?
IMHO history is mundane, like debating what Christ's sandal size was. I believe that ancient peoples used stories to communicate metaphysical ( not the new age nonsense, they co-opted the term. I mean it in the philosophical sense Metaphysics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) ) truths.
PS; This includes Christian, Jewish, Muslim , Hindu etc scriptures.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
What evidence do you have that ancient peoples, on the whole, were any less literal than modern peoples, on the whole?

It sometimes seems to me that the modern tendency of thinking that the ancients took their myths more as metaphors than as literal truths is just that -- a modern tendency.
 
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raw_thought

Well-Known Member
What evidence do you have that ancient peoples, on the whole, were any less literal than modern peoples, on the whole?

It sometimes seems to me that the modern tendency of thinking that the ancients took their myths more as metaphors than as literal truths is just that -- a modern tendency.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell#Comparative_mythology_and_Campbell.27s_theories]Joseph Campbell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Most religions started out with story telling since they did not have a very sophisticated philosophical vocabulary. Philosophy Dictionary | Philosophy Terms Definitions
If an actual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Good_Samaritan existed or not is superfluous.
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not sure "scripture" is the best word to use to refer to the written or oral traditions of all of the world's religions. Historicity is an unimportant non-issue in many (probably most) religions. Or at least it isn't important in the sense that the Abrahamic mythological literalists will regard it as important.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
[Joseph]Joseph Campbell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Campbell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Campbell was a genius in many regards, but he was not infallible. I think he was largely wrong on those occasions when he stated that the ancients, on the whole, took their myths more metaphorically than literally. While well educated people of all ages have tended to take myths with a grain of salt, even today, sizable numbers of ordinary people take the cautionary tales of "Urban Myths" literally, rather than figuratively.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Sunstone, what was your take on Karen Armstrong's "A Short History of Myth," then, if you've read it?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Sunstone, what was your take on Karen Armstrong's "A Short History of Myth," then, if you've read it?

Unfortunately, all I've read of Armstrong have been a very few short columns of hers. I've heard from numerous sources that many of her views are unsubstantiated, but I don't know enough about her to have formed that opinion myself. Her views in the columns I read often struck me as unsubstantiated, but those were columns -- who on earth lays out all the evidence they might have for something in a mere column?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I'm not sure "scripture" is the best word to use to refer to the written or oral traditions of all of the world's religions. Historicity is an unimportant non-issue in many (probably most) religions. Or at least it isn't important in the sense that the Abrahamic mythological literalists will regard it as important.

I think you're partly right, partly wrong. If we are prone to literal interpretation, like myself, Scripture can be a bit confusing. Why is it confusing then? Well, it's because i'm reading it in that manner, when people read it in non-literal way, seems to make much more sense.

We can say, non-literal interpretation is important, from that instance. That's my personal view of the matter.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I suspect that "historical" and "metaphorical" are not mutually exclusive categories to most people. To take Noah's Flood as historical is not necessarily to perceive in it no metaphor(s), no symbolism, or spiritual meaning.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I suspect that "historical" and "metaphorical" are not mutually exclusive categories to most people. To take Noah's Flood as historical is not necessarily to perceive in it no metaphor(s), no symbolism, or spiritual meaning.

That's something to think about. It's true.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
It sometimes seems to me that the modern tendency of thinking that the ancients took their myths more as metaphors than as literal truths is just that -- a modern tendency.

Is that necessarily a negative thing?

Anyway, to answer the question of the OP, one can take aspects (or even the whole) of their scripture as literal as they want, but in the end, I think the spiritual teachings are what's most important.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
What is more important, the spiritual message or historical accuracy?
.

NEITHER. Both miss the ballpark completely.

Ancient men took these as myth, spiritual, allegory and metaphoricaly, and legend much they way they do now.

I think todays cultures pervert the interpretations out of context much more then the ancient people did. Literal interpretations were not used the way they are today.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Is that necessarily a negative thing?

I don't know for sure, but I would suggest that we humans are more comfortable when we are able to think of our foundational myths as both literally true and also having greater meaning and significance.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Unfortunately, all I've read of Armstrong have been a very few short columns of hers. I've heard from numerous sources that many of her views are unsubstantiated, but I don't know enough about her to have formed that opinion myself. Her views in the columns I read often struck me as unsubstantiated, but those were columns -- who on earth lays out all the evidence they might have for something in a mere column?

That's fair.

Honestly, I don't think the question of how our ancestors interpreted mythology can be answered definitively. But I know for me, looking at Pagan mythology in particular, I can see no reason to understand it as anything other than allegorical, anthropomorphic, artistic and poetic interpretations of various aspects of reality (and by "reality" I mean to include the otherworlds, by the way). Maps of territory. I haven't honestly taken the time to develop a definitive argument for this with citations and everything, but it just strikes me as intuitively obvious based on my studies over the years.

I suppose one thing I can mention is the fact that there are multiple stories describing the same events. In Hellenic mythology, each god has many sets of parents attributed to it and often several different origin stories. Parentage is a way of describing a relationship between various aspects of reality. If we take the god Eros, for example, his origin and parentage are described in multiple ways. On the one hand, he's sometimes regarded as primordial and as a fundamental organizing force of reality that existed well before the Olympians. In other stories he's regarded as the product of love and war - the two Olympians Aphrodite and Ares - and has somewhat different attributes. All of this screams "storytelling" not "literal/historical/empirical" to me. It just doesn't make any sense if you treat mythology as science or literal history; I highly doubt it was ever intended to be. Now, the natural philosophy of the Greeks on the other hand? A very, very different story. That was a sort of pre-science, and it also eschews the sort of narrative and poetry of the religious mythology. There were also definitely some narratives that blended in some history, like the Iliad.

As for the Bible, that mythology is a little different. It's more like the Iliad in that it likely blends together historical events and poetic storytelling. I'm no scholar on it, and I rather wish Fallingblood was still around to speak to this topic.
 

Amechania

Daimona of the Helpless
I'm not sure there isn't any document you couldn't read in any manner you chose: the phone book could be analyzed for spiritual, practical and intellectual content if one was so disposed.
As far as scripture there are advantages and disadvantages to various kinds of interpretation, i.e. Historical-Critical v Rhetorical, etc.
 

Awkward Fingers

Omphaloskeptic
I actually voted 'literal'. If there isn't any literal content i.e. 'truth', the Bible holds no value to me, basically.

Books can be completely fictional, and still have lasting values, in my opinion.
Personally, I love reading Aesop's Fabels to my niece and nephew, and while completely fictional stories, I think they have wonderful lessons in them to be learned.

Is it only the Bible that has no worth to you if not literal?
And even if it wasn't literal, couldn't you find some nice stories out of it to live by?, without requiring them to be factual?
 
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