Kolibri
Well-Known Member
I don't know. It could have been formatted better so it was not all in one block of text, but the information was put together logically and worth the read.
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Matthew 1: 18-20
- Thread starter Awoon
- Start date
I don't know. It could have been formatted better so it was not all in one block of text, but the information was put together logically and worth the read.
Brian Stoin
Member
Sorry that post was so long...there was quite a bit of explanation involved.
The bottom line is that Jesus' genealogy is important to have and know since it had been prophesied that he would be in David's family line, etc.
Matthew shows his genealogy through Joseph and Luke through Mary's family line.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree. Cant see any "lie" here at all. There was alittel problem at first with her being pregnant. Joseph knew that it wasnt his until he was told by the angel. But talking about lies, look at Abraham with Sarah. He told the Egyptian King that she was his sister. Ooppss. But he did it to say their lives.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Aaaaand. Abraham technically did not lie. Marrying your half-sister was not considered incest yet. But Abraham did leave out part of the truth as he was trying to show practical wisdom for his surrounding environment.
"Abraham said: 'It was because I said to myself, "Surely there is no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife." And besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father but not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife. So when God caused me to wander from the house of my father, I said to her: "Let this be how you show loyal love to me: Everywhere we go, say of me, 'He is my brother.'"'" - Genesis 20:11-13
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Good point. Thanks
Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman: Hi Awoon, No, I don’t see where God asked Jesus to lie for him. When Mary was found to be with child, Joseph, knowing he was not the father, had several options. First, he could have subjected Mary to a public divorce and perhaps even execution, for people would have presumed that Mary was guilty of adultery—a crime punishable by death under the law of Moses (see Leviticus 20:10; John 8:5). Second, Joseph could have had his betrothal to Mary privately annulled before two witnesses. A third option was to proceed with the marriage. Joseph was inclined to show mercy to Mary by quietly annulling the betrothal agreement (see Matthew 1:19). However, when assured by an angel that Mary’s child was the Son of God, Joseph elected to marry her, though doing so could have brought upon him public shame and ridicule (see Matthew 1:20–25; Luke 3:23; John 8:41).
“Matthew tells us that [Joseph] was of the lineage of King David, that he was a just and considerate man, that in a dream an angel told him who Jesus would be, that he was obedient, and that he gave Jesus his name, which means savior. (See Matt. 1.) We know that he took Mary to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. (See Luke 2:4–6.) Less than two years later, Joseph took his family into Egypt to escape Herod, after being warned in a dream. In Egypt, a dream again told him when to return, and another dream told him to go to Galilee. (See Matt. 2:13–15, 19–22.) Four dreams from God! Joseph must have been an exceptionally visionary and spiritually sensitive man”
Matthew 1:18 ¶Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Source:
www.lds.org
Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman: The Jews had scrupulously preserved their genealogical tables till the advent of Christ; and the evangelists had recourse to them, and appealed to them in reference to our Lord’s descent from the house of David;
Matthew taking this genealogy in the descending, Luke in the ascending, line. And whatever difficulties we may now find in these genealogies, they were certainly clear to the Jews; nor did the most determined enemies of the Gospel attempt to raise one objection to it from the appeal which the evangelists had made to their own public and accredited tables.”
Genealogical records were indispensable to the ancient Israelites. “All Israel were reckoned by genealogies; and, behold, they were written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah.” (1 Chr. 9:1.) Local genealogical records were also kept, reckoning people “by their genealogy in their villages.” (1 Chr. 9:22) Through such records, the Israelites were able to establish lineage, and the Levites were able to prove their right to the priesthood.
Genealogies are listed in several places in both the Old and New Testaments. We are all familiar with the long lists of “begats” that record parentage and lineage. For example, Genesis lists the generations following Adam. Later, in the first chapter of 1 Chronicles, we find the genealogy from Adam to Abraham; then in succeeding chapters, the generations following Abraham are given. The Savior’s own genealogy is recorded twice in the New Testament—once in Matthew 1:1-17 [Matt. 1:1-17] and again in Luke 3:23-38.
Generation (Matt.10:23b).” (Matt.16:28; cp Luke 9:27). “ (Matt.24:34; cp Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32). “ (Heb.10:37). “(1 John 2:18).
Throughout the Old and New Testaments the Jews went through tedious work to record their family lines. However the record will show that knowing our descendants’ was very important to the Lord and to the Jews and it should be to us. As you read my post, consider how you feel about this? Do you think doing genealogy is important? Is it important for us to work on recording our family lines for us and our posterity? Is it important to know who we are descendants of? I personally have been working on my family history for thirty years. I believe it is important in our day as it was with the ancients to record our family history.
Sometimes evil men arose and destroyed some of these family lines. For example, Herod destroyed the public registers; he, being an Idumean, was jealous of the noble origin of the Jews; and, that none might be able to reproach him with his descent, he ordered the genealogical tables, which were kept among the archives in the temple, to be burnt. From this time the Jews could refer to their genealogies only from memory, or from those imperfect tables which had been preserved in private hands; and to make out any regular line from these must have been endless and uncertain.
I see the importance of our deceased ancestors, and family lineage, and the importance of the eternal family unit to be recorded. For it was by the Family Lineage, that some of the Jews identified their Messiah. And there was a time in the OT, that you could not hold the priesthood without your Geneological record. The importance of genealogy had been well established from the time of Adam down to Paul’s day.
Ezra 2:62-63…These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood. 63…And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till their stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.(Ezra 2:62-63…This passage has reference to those who returned from the captivity who had inter-married among peoples who were not entitled to the blessings of the priesthood. By marrying out of the covenant, some Isaelites lost the right to have their descendents officiate in the priesthood.)
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
I have been taught a different way of understanding Ezra 2. These families could not proved their credentials not because of their intermarriages (that was fixed towards the end of the book), but by their specific genealogical records being lost over the 70 year exile. So they had to wait till the Urim and Thummin could be used to verify their ancestral right in leau of birth documents.
Genealogies were important because it was very much tied to inheritances. It also allowed mankind to see their connection of life all the way back to the first man Adam from whom we all inherited life and the tendency to do wrong. Sad to say I can not trace my family life back very far. I will need to rely on the resurrection to do so with accuracy.
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Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman: Hi Kolibri, yes you are correct. The descendants of the Jews taken captive who return to Jerusalem and to Judah are listed. The children of priests whose genealogy is lost are denied the priesthood. Ezra 2:62-63…These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood. 63…And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till their stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.(Ezra 2:62-63…This passage has reference to those who returned from the captivity who had inter-married among peoples who were not entitled to the blessings of the priesthood. By marrying out of the covenant, some Isaelites lost the right to have their descendents officiate in the priesthood.)
This is what I was going to add but didn't. Many Jews intermarry with the Canaanites and others and follow their abominations. This also had to do with the priesthood and Jews marrying out side the covenant of marriage which affected the priesthood.
Ezra 9:1 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. 2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.
The Jews covenant to put away their wives taken from the Canaanites and others. Ezra assembles the people at Jerusalem. The Levites who married non-Israelite women are listed.
Ezra 10:2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing. 3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law. 10 And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel. 11 Now therefore make confession unto the Lord God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives. 12 Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.
Ezra 10:19 And they gave their hands that they would put away their wives; and being guilty, they offered a ram of the flock for their trespass.
Ezra 10:44 All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children.
(I have been working for years on my family history, I do not think anyone can trace there family lines all the way back to Adam. However, you would be surprised Kolibri just how far back you can trace your descendants.)
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
I was mistaken btw. The example I was thinking of was in the book of Nehemiah. There the issue of Jews, including some of the Levites having foreign wives that was again dealt with. Their children could not even speak Hebrew and had little chance of identifying themselves nationally and religiously as Jews because of it.
(Neh 13:23-31)
(Neh 13:23-31)
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