Israel-Gaza : The bitter harvest of hate

[Jayhawker Soule]

From The Times of Israel:

Freed hostage Mia Schem: 'I experienced hell. There are no innocent civilians in Gaza'​

It is a long and deeply disturbing article where we can read:

Schem spoke in depth for the first time about the experience to both Channel 12 and 13 news, recounting the moments she was taken hostage, the suffering and mental torture she endured in captivity, and the experience of coming back home.​

​

“It’s important to me to reveal the real situation about the people who live in Gaza, who they really are, and what I went through there,” she told Channel 13 news. “I experienced hell. Everyone there are terrorists… there are no innocent civilians, not one,” she said. “[Innocent civilians] don’t exist.”​

The article deserves to be read because Mia Schem deserves to be heard -- the truth of her trauma must be recognized and acknowledged. So, too, the trauma being endured by far, far too many innocent Palestinian civilians who do in fact exist.

Even as we prepare for a bitter harvest of hate I think it's really important to remember that empathy is not a zero sum game.

 

[metis]

Another source: Hamas used horrific sexual violence, raping and mutilating Israeli women and girls on October 7: NYT

 

[libre]

She didn't deserve the horrors she endured and her perspective deserves to be heard.

I do think it's very concerning that to see the quote in the headline reported without any mention of how absurd and dangerous that sentiment is.

 

[Revoltingest]

She didn't deserve the horrors she endured and her perspective deserves to be heard.

I do think it's very concerning that to see the quote in the headline reported without any mention of how absurd and dangerous that sentiment is.

It must be a popular sentiment.
Israelis appear to view Palestinians as evil animals,
which explains their mass murder, & the eviction
of millions from Gaza.

One hostage endured terrible things. Yet she is
still alive...unlike the 20,000 Palestinians murdered
by Israel. And unlike the many thousands of
children Israel maimed, she still has all her limbs.
She is personally culpable for Israel's brutality
because she encourages it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I do think it's very concerning that to see the quote in the headline reported without any mention of how absurd and dangerous that sentiment is.

I would never characterize an outburst refracted through near unimaginable trauma as absurd.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would never characterize an outburst refracted through near unimaginable trauma as absurd.

She had time to consider her response.
Hateful vilification was deliberately & thoughtfully chosen.

Would you show such charity towards a Palestinian
victim who said there are "no innocent Jews"?

 

[libre]

I would never characterize an outburst refracted through near unimaginable trauma as absurd.

Absurd may not be the best word. I do not mean to suggest that it deserves ridicule, she needs space to heal.

We should however point out that it is a wildly unreasonable belief and that causes harm.
Any analysis that does not point out that the statement that 'there are no Gazan civilians' is dangerous and racist has fell short.

I recall earlier in the conflict Palestinian social media indulging in a similar 'settlers aren't civilians' and these perspectives were rightfully dismissed as antisemitic.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The details she shared are deeply disturbing, and the perspective of suffering civilians must be shared.

I do find it remarkably irresponsible, dangerous, and demonizing on the part of the Times of Israel to highlight a claim that there are "no innocent civilians in Gaza" in the title of the article amid the ongoing bombardment that has killed over 21,000 people and created a humanitarian disaster in every sense of the word.

They could have highlighted any of the many harrowing details she talked about, but they chose for the headline the one claim that is arguably most likely to instill further hatred and mutual dehumanization, and not once did they contextualize why it is incorrect in the article.

This war has indeed led to a harvest of hatred, and many media outlets are complicit. It appears that the Times of Israel has made itself one of those.

 

[Revoltingest]

I recall earlier in the conflict Palestinian social media indulging in a similar 'settlers aren't civilians' and these perspectives were rightfully dismissed as antisemitic.

I disagree. The settlers have stolen Palestinian land
by violent means with approval of Israel's government.
This is reasonably seen as a quasi-military act.
To call it "anti-semitic" is specious because it;s specific
to the settlers who committed this illegal violence
& theft. Their being Jewish isn't the defining trait.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Absurd may not be the best word. I do not mean to suggest that it deserves ridicule, she needs space to heal.

We should however point out that it is a wildly unreasonable belief and that causes harm.
Any analysis that does not point out that the statement that 'there are no Gazan civilians' is dangerous and racist has fell short.

I recall earlier in the conflict Palestinian social media indulging in a similar 'settlers aren't civilians' and these perspectives were rightfully dismissed as antisemitic.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

do find it remarkably irresponsible, dangerous, and demonizing on the part of the Times of Israel to highlight a claim that there are "no innocent civilians in Gaza" in the title of the article amid the ongoing bombardment that has killed over 21,000 people and created a humanitarian disaster in every sense of the word.

I agree. One possible, albeit insufficient, explanation might be that her comments were widely communicated on Hebrew media and they felt it appropriate to make it available in the diaspora.

 

[libre]

The settlers have stolen Palestinian land
by violent means with approval of Israel's government.
This is reasonably seen as a quasi-military act.
To call it "anti-semitic" is specious because its specific
to the settlers who committed this illegal violence
& theft.

I'm not denying that illegal settlement is happening, or that ongoing the ongoing settlement process has a paramilitary component.

However many who perished on the attacks during October 7th were civilians that lived in areas settled before the Nakba. They certainly did not meet the criteria of a paramilitary. To drum up the 'settlers aren't civilians' slogan in response to October 7th obfuscates the reality of the situation.

I do not believe that the same arguments would be accepted if it was North American settlers attacked in unceded land, so in my view it meets the criteria of antisemitism.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not denying that illegal settlement is happening, or that ongoing the ongoing settlement process has a paramilitary component.

However many who perished on the attacks during October 7th were civilians that lived in areas settled before the Nakba. They certainly did not meet the criteria of a paramilitary. To drum up the 'settlers aren't civilians' slogan in response to October 7th obfuscates the reality of the situation.

Even much of the land outside Gaza was
stolen by Israeli settlers. I wouldn't say that
all settlers everywhere in Israel are non-civilian,
but that view has a big grain of truth.

I do not believe that the same arguments would be accepted if it was North American settlers attacked in unceded land, so in my view it meets the criteria of antisemitism.

The accusation of "anti-semitism" has worn
out any real meaning. It's just an insult now.
Anti-Muslim is the more legitimate claim
in Israel & USA.

 

[Twilight Hue]

She had time to consider her response.
Hateful vilification was deliberately & thoughtfully chosen.

Would you show such charity towards a Palestinian
victim who said there are "no innocent Jews"?

I'd like to see one, rather than a vapid analogy that equates the level of horrors described conversely.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd like to see one, rather than a vapid analogy that equates the level of horrors described conversely.

I don't equate them.
The horrors that Israel inflicts on Palestinians
is far far worse than what Hamas does to Israel.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't equate them.
The horrors that Israel inflicts on Palestinians
is far far worse than what Hamas does to Israel.

I'm sure some Palestinian will come out for you and explain the sheer horrors inflicted upon them are far worse than what the Palestinians inflicted on the Jewish Israel's they capture.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sure some Palestinian will come out for you and explain the sheer horrors inflicted upon them are far worse than what the Palestinians inflicted on the Jewish Israel's they capture.

A couple hundred captives who survive endure
far far less suffering than the several tens of
thousands of Palestinians who lost limbs or died.
Israel doesn't value the lives of Palestinians at all.

 

[libre]

The accusation of "anti-semitism" has worn
out any real meaning.

Serial abuse of the word 'antisemitism' does destroy the meeting.
This is not one of such abuses.
Those who minimize Jewish suffering are contributing to a dangerous and spreading antisemitism. This isn't a zero sum game.

 

[Revoltingest]

Serial abuse of the word 'antisemitism' does destroy the meeting.
This is not one of such abuses.

So you say.
I find it to be a mis-use.

Those who minimize Jewish suffering are contributing to a dangerous and spreading antisemitism. This isn't a zero sum game.

Those who ignore the killing of tens of thousands
of Palestinians, yet complain bitterly about the
mistreatment of a couple hundred Jewish hostages
who get to survive & go home is far more dangerous.

 

[Koldo]

Serial abuse of the word 'antisemitism' does destroy the meeting.
This is not one of such abuses.
Those who minimize Jewish suffering are contributing to a dangerous and spreading antisemitism. This isn't a zero sum game.

But on what grounds is it proper to call it anti-semitism? Rather than anti-settler, anti-israel, anti-imperialism or anti-zionism?