Isn't being good the real salvation?

[Theweirdtophat]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

 

[viole]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

So, children die of panful bone cancer because their beforelife was bad?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Theweirdtophat]

So, children die of panful bone cancer because their beforelife was bad?

Ciao

- viole

What are you even talking about? What made you think I even suggested that? I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what the afterlife is like but you don't need to make absurd exaggerations. You exaggerate a lot on this forum.

 

[viole]

What are you even talking about? What made you think I even suggested that? I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what the afterlife is like but you don't need to make absurd exaggerations. You exaggerate a lot on this forum.

Maybe I am wrong. But I think you said that if one has a good life, then its afterlife is also good. Now, since I doubt that dying of bone cancer is a good life, we can infer that children suffering from it did not have a good beforelife.

Necessarily.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Koldo]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

Why do you believe in any of that ?

 

[Akivah]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

I don't know if your beliefs represent any particular religion, but it sounds good. It also fits a linear pattern. I.e. if you've been a good person, then you'll prefer to go to a good place. If you've been a bad person, then you'll prefer to go to a bad place. Your end represents the choices you've made over your life.

 

[Demonslayer]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

This is why I always thought the Christian idea of "faith based salvation" is the most barbaric, evil concept ever devised.

I was arguing with a Christian one time who was trying to explain to me this idea that we can't base the salvation/damnation decision on "works" or good deeds because God is perfect and no one can ever be good enough. "How good is good enough for God" was how he would put it, indicating there was no way for God to say X number of good deeds would be enough to make up for your sins while X-1 deeds was not enough. Thus, the only way to be forgiven for your sins was "faith and faith alone" in Jesus.

When I got to the inevitable discussion of "doesn't this mean there are awful, violent, criminal Christians who make it to Heaven and wonderful, kind, peaceful Jews who burn in Hell, he got frustrated and at one point blurted out...I kid you not "you don't get it, it has nothing to do with being good!"

It has nothing to do with being good. That's all I needed to hear. Who could embrace such a system?

 

[Koldo]

I don't know if your beliefs represent any particular religion, but it sounds good. It also fits a nice pattern. I.e. if you've been a good person, then you'll prefer to go to a good place. If you've been a bad person, then you'll prefer to go to a bad place. Your end represents the choices you've made over your life.

What would a 'bad place' be like ? And why would anyone want to live there ?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I don't know if your beliefs represent any particular religion, but it sounds good. It also fits a nice pattern. I.e. if you've been a good person, then you'll prefer to go to a good place. If you've been a bad person, then you'll prefer to go to a bad place. Your end represents the choices you've made over your life.

Thanks. I don't know if it fits a specific religion even though I'm a Druid and try to live in harmony in whatever environment I'm in. I'm really more of an animist, recognizing spirits in many places. I see gods and prophets and know that many say good things, I just personally don't worship them and prefer to work with nature spirits. In Celtic myth there is a place called the Otherworld where you go and stay for a while and eventually after a long time, get reincarnated and the cycle starts over.

I always thought cycles were important and that souls are like matter, in which they can't be destroyed, only changed. I personally believe the more good deeds you do and the greater the deed, the more of the after life you'll see, have an easier time visiting mortals, ect. You'd get a good spot in the afterlife if you saved a life and saved the entire world from destruction. Everyone has done and said things they shouldn't have done but depending on how many bad deeds and how terrible the bad deed is, doing bad deeds means your separated from the other good souls and you're not tortured like you are in some other afterlives. Rather the feeling and deeds and your place in the afterlife is torture enough and basically you mull on your sins and eventually when you regret such actions, you reincarnate but start lower on the totem pole so to speak. That's what I personally believe.

 

[Demonslayer]

What would a 'bad place' be like ? And why would anyone want to live there ?

Detroit? Maybe they like Bob Seger and Kid Rock?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

This is why I always thought the Christian idea of "faith based salvation" is the most barbaric, evil concept ever devised.

I was arguing with a Christian one time who was trying to explain to me this idea that we can't base the salvation/damnation decision on "works" or good deeds because God is perfect and no one can ever be good enough. "How good is good enough for God" was how he would put it, indicating there was no way for God to say X number of good deeds would be enough to make up for your sins while X-1 deeds was not enough. Thus, the only way to be forgiven for your sins was "faith and faith alone" in Jesus.

When I got to the inevitable discussion of "doesn't this mean there are awful, violent, criminal Christians who make it to Heaven and wonderful, kind, peaceful Jews who burn in Hell, he got frustrated and at one point blurted out...I kid you not "you don't get it, it has nothing to do with being good!"

It has nothing to do with being good. That's all I needed to hear. Who could embrace such a system?

You probably shouldn't base Christianity on just what one person says. There's multiple branches and not all have the same beliefs, customs and rules. And in the bible if I'm not mistake, it makes it clear that anyone who commits terrible deeds will not be welcomed in the Kingdom of God.

 

[viole]

I don't know if your beliefs represent any particular religion, but it sounds good. It also fits a nice pattern. I.e. if you've been a good person, then you'll prefer to go to a good place. If you've been a bad person, then you'll prefer to go to a bad place. Your end represents the choices you've made over your life.

Non sequitur. If I were a bad person I would love to go to a good place.

Less competition and a nasty enjoyment to ruin it.

Ciao

- viole

 

[savagewind]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

To argue the question we need to assume that there is an afterlife. I shall assume it. I do not think that good works get a person to a good place or that bad works get a person to a bad place. I will guess that the knowledge of a good place and the wisdom to follow the right way gets a person to a good place and ignorance and laziness gets a person to a bad place.

 

[Koldo]

Non sequitur. If I were a bad person I would love to go to a good place.

Less competition and a nasty enjoyment to ruin it.

Ciao

- viole

This seems so obvious that he must have thought about something else when he said 'bad place'.
After all, I don't know anyone who is interested in a one-way trip to Hell.

 

[viole]

This seems so obvious that he must have thought about something else when he said 'bad place'.
After all, I don't know anyone who is interested in a one-way trip to Hell.

That reminds of those forms we have to fill when we travel to the USA.
They ask whether we are terrorists, among other things.

Can you imagine a terrorist answering yes to that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Theweirdtophat]

To argue the question we need to assume that there is an afterlife. I shall assume it. I do not think that good works get a person to a good place or that bad works get a person to a bad place. I will guess that the knowledge of a good place and the wisdom to follow the right way gets a person to a good place and ignorance and laziness gets a person to a bad place.

You can be ignorant in some things and still be good hearted. Bad people tend to be lazy and/or ignorant. Following the good path alone is wise. You just need to be a good person overall you don't have to be an absolute pure hearted saint to get into a good afterlife, but it all helps. Just being a normal decent person is enough but it never hurts to do more good deeds.

 

[Demonslayer]

You probably shouldn't base Christianity on just what one person says. There's multiple branches and not all have the same beliefs, customs and rules. And in the bible if I'm not mistake, it makes it clear that anyone who commits terrible deeds will not be welcomed in the Kingdom of God.

No I don't base Christianity on one person and I know a lot about the denominations actually. I was raised Catholic and studied religion in college. The division...and it's pretty evenly split among Christian denominations...is between "faith based" salvation and "works based" salvation. Ask around and you'll find that Christians are pretty evenly split on the idea, and very insistant on which they feel is the "real" path to salvation.

Both are supported by the Bible, as with most things in the Big Ol Book O Crazy, depending on what passage you read. There are passages that say terrible deeds will turn you away, but there are just as many that say if you don't follow Jesus his sacrifice can't cleanse you of Original Sin. As usual no definitive answer is given by the Bible, so it's up to the sects to argue about it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I see no particularly convincing reason to think that god would reward behavior that we see as good or moral over behavior that we see as bad or immoral. It's just as likely, if there is a god, that it values cruelty, deceit, and violence, and that those who are the worst in life will reap the greatest rewards in the afterlife.

 

[George-ananda]

I always thought going to a good afterlife would require you to be a good person overall. I never thought it was necessary to believe in a particular god or meditate and let go of attachments or following a certain set of rules was necessary. I thought it'd be simple. Be good.

I always thought if you've done more good than bad in your life, you're welcome to join the good afterlife and the more good you do, the more of the afterlife you get to do and see. I always thought reincarnation was part of it as well.

I see the gods prophets spirits as guides but not necessary to worship. Just be a good person overall. Love yourself as well as others. Don't harm others and don't harm yourself.

I basically like your view. We get all befuddled with each other over beliefs but what really matters most is the loving, peaceful qualities of our hearts and minds. It knows no particular religion. We enjoy the afterlife to the level of how well we advanced spiritually. As we realize we have further to grow after being in the afterlife for some time we will choose a new growing experience (reincarnation).

 

[savagewind]

You can be ignorant in some things and still be good hearted.

Nobody knows everything. I think that knowledge of the way is needed to be on it. Goodness and badness are subjective concepts.

Bad people tend to be lazy and/or ignorant.

Really? How do you know that?

Following the good path alone is wise.

I agree that to follow the good path is wise. What does "alone" mean, please?

You just need to be a good person overall you don't have to be an absolute pure hearted saint to get into a good afterlife, but it all helps.

If there is a place to go after I die nothing I do is going to get me there. I am sure. 1 Timothy 2:4 John 3:17

Just being a normal decent person is enough but it never hurts to do more good deeds.

I think I am a decent person but I am certain that I am not normal. How much normal must I be to avoid the bad place, do you think?