Islamic definitions, labels, and linguistic management

[Bobbyh]

Hi,

I'd like to understand or learn if any fundamental differences exist in the use of language and thought that are significant to Islamic believers. Like on average, do humans that follow other religious ideas differ in the ways that they may perceive the acknowledgement of meaning or definition of identities?

For example, Islam (please correct me if I'm mistaken) is both classified as a religious and a political system. Is there a word that describes this hybrid of two labels (1-political, 2-religious) as one?

Or is it only described as being two unique systems working together as one?

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on you. If the underlying question is "Is it is ambition of Islam to take over the world politically?"

Then From Ahmadiyya Muslim point of view:
"" In answer to a question about whether Khilafat and democracy are compatible, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad [The current, the fifth, Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah of Promised Messiah Mahdi] said:

“Khilafat has no relation to government or politics. When Ahmadiyyat spreads far and wide the Khilafat will play no role in government and will never interfere with matters of State. We have no political ambitions or desires. We believe entirely in a separation of religion and matters of State.” ""
Source: True Khilafat compatible with Democracy – Head of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat | Islam Ahmadiyya


"Should Religion Have Exclusive Legislative Authority?"
" .............Religion and statecraft are two of the many wheels of the wagon of society. It is, in reality, irrelevant whether there are two, four and eight wheels as long as they keep their orientation correct and revolve within their orbits. There can be no question of mutual conflict or confrontation. In total agreement with its earlier Divine teachings, the Holy Quran elaborates this theme by clearly demarcating the sphere of activities of each component of society. It will be over-simplifying the matter if one conceives that there is no meeting point or common ground, which religion and the state share with each other. They do indeed overlap, but only in a spirit of cooperation with each other. There is no intent to monopolise...................
Source: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf

Furthermore please type the words
separation of state and religion
in wwwDOTalislamDOTorg

 

[FearGod]

Peace be on you. If the underlying question is "Is it is ambition of Islam to take over the world politically?"

Then From Ahmadiyya Muslim point of view:
"" In answer to a question about whether Khilafat and democracy are compatible, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad [The current, the fifth, Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah of Promised Messiah Mahdi] said:

“Khilafat has no relation to government or politics. When Ahmadiyyat spreads far and wide the Khilafat will play no role in government and will never interfere with matters of State. We have no political ambitions or desires. We believe entirely in a separation of religion and matters of State.” ""
Source: True Khilafat compatible with Democracy – Head of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat | Islam Ahmadiyya


"Should Religion Have Exclusive Legislative Authority?"
" .............Religion and statecraft are two of the many wheels of the wagon of society. It is, in reality, irrelevant whether there are two, four and eight wheels as long as they keep their orientation correct and revolve within their orbits. There can be no question of mutual conflict or confrontation. In total agreement with its earlier Divine teachings, the Holy Quran elaborates this theme by clearly demarcating the sphere of activities of each component of society. It will be over-simplifying the matter if one conceives that there is no meeting point or common ground, which religion and the state share with each other. They do indeed overlap, but only in a spirit of cooperation with each other. There is no intent to monopolise...................
Source: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf

Furthermore please type the words
separation of state and religion
in wwwDOTalislamDOTorg

What if the government and politicians decided to legalize prostitution, drugs,same sex marriage ....etc ?
If the false khilafat (if i may call it so) can't Interrupt the government's decision then what it is for ?

 

[DawudTalut]

What if the government and politicians decided to legalize prostitution, drugs,same sex marriage ....etc ?
If the false khilafat (if i may call it so) can't Interrupt the government's decision then what it is for ?

If you please read above (and the whole explanation in the link) :
"It will be over-simplifying the matter if one conceives that there is no meeting point or common ground, which religion and the state share with each other."

If Muslims are present at a place, when there will be legislation on societal issue, they can give their Quran based input.

If you have some other ideas, please present them to person who wrote the question. We are in Islam DIR, debating is not allowed here. Thank you. Good wishes.

 

[Bobbyh]

I'm sorry I'm not exactly interested in the religious or political viewpoint, I was interested in if perspectives of language use differs based on religious influence (there is no underlying question, but I understand the assumption). I've been told Islam is both a political and religious system. But it sounds like you're saying that is not true? Maybe I am misunderstanding, I also am not familiar with the word "Khilafat", what is that?

 

[FearGod]

If you please read above (and the whole explanation in the link) :
"It will be over-simplifying the matter if one conceives that there is no meeting point or common ground, which religion and the state share with each other."

If Muslims are present at a place, when there will be legislation on societal issue, they can give their Quran based input.

If you have some other ideas, please present them to person who wrote the question. We are in Islam DIR, debating is not allowed here. Thank you. Good wishes.

Not debating but the true khilafat according to Islam should apply the sharia law and hence the government should be
under the Islamic rule and not the politicians, just sayin.

 

[Bobbyh]

Not debating but the true khilafat according to Islam should apply the sharia law and hence the government should be
under the Islamic rule and not the politicians, just sayin.

So maybe to help understand my inquiry we first need to define religion and politics. So would they be defined separately or together? Right now they are two different words with two different definitions, and my question is if that is applicable from an Islamic perspective? If not, is there a single word or definition that is applicable?

 

[FearGod]

So maybe to help understand my inquiry we first need to define religion and politics. So would they be defined separately or together? Right now they are two different words with two different definitions, and my question is if that is applicable from an Islamic perspective? If not, is there a single word or definition that is applicable?

The word politics as i guess without the need for searching for it and according to my understanding in both Arabic and English it means trying to control and influence people by a polite approach, and hence i think the word is politicians, the politicians are the ones who try to fool people by manipulating those principles to achieve their goals to control the society.

 

[NoX]

Hi,

I'd like to understand or learn if any fundamental differences exist in the use of language and thought that are significant to Islamic believers. Like on average, do humans that follow other religious ideas differ in the ways that they may perceive the acknowledgement of meaning or definition of identities?

For example, Islam (please correct me if I'm mistaken) is both classified as a religious and a political system. Is there a word that describes this hybrid of two labels (1-political, 2-religious) as one?

Or is it only described as being two unique systems working together as one?

In Quran, Allah says this is the true deen. The word "deen" means "rules" or "system". Its translated as "religion" in English.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Allah swt told the believers to rule by what he has revealed.
Also u should realize that the kuffar(Ahlu kitaab and monotheists) were allowed to rule themselves according to their own law from bible. For instance during prophet's time pbuh the jews governed themselves by the law of moses pbuh.

Its a command from Allah to judge by the revelation which are Qur'an and also sunnah of prophet pbuh.

 

[DawudTalut]

I was interested in if perspectives of language use differs based on religious influence (there is no underlying question, but I understand the assumption). I've been told Islam is both a political and religious system. But it sounds like you're saying that is not true? Maybe I am misunderstanding, I also am not familiar with the word "Khilafat", what is that?

Peace be on you.
1- The preservation of Holy Quran in one original language (Arabic) has been a the grand bounty of Allah upon Muslims, basics can always be learned from there. There maybe some variation in translations or commentaries but fundamentals are always same.

2- Holy Quran addresses all possible aspects of human life; relation with God and relation with fellow human being; rights of individual and rights of society [whether few Muslims living in non Muslim society or the whole society consists of Muslims].

3- One contemporary definition of politics is:
"Politics (from Greek: πολιτικός politikos, definition "of, for, or relating to citizens") is the practice and theory of influencing other people. More narrowly, it refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance — organized control over a human community, particularly a state. Furthermore, politics is the study or practice of the distribution of power and resources within a given community (a hierarchically organized population) as well as the interrelationship(s) between communities."
Ref: Politics Wiki

4- Islam provides guide lines in above matters and more, based on Justice. It guides in both cases: either few Muslims living in majority non-Muslim areas, and it guides if all citizens are Muslims and few are non-Muslims.

More aspects e.g.
Islam’s Contribution to World Peace
Promotion of Harmony and Mutual Respect Amongst Religions
Instruments of Struggle—No Compulsion
Freedom of Speech
Liberty and Emancipation in the Context of the Contemporary World
Blasphemy
Inter-Religious Cooperation
Accountability
Islamic Social Climate
Fundamentals of an Islamic Society
Chastity
Segregation of Sexes
The Dawn of a New Age in Women’s Rights
Equal Rights for Women
Care of the Aged
The Future Generation
Bridling of Desires
Do’s and Don’ts
Rejection of Racialism
Socio-economic Peace
Service to Others
Prohibition of Drinking and Gambling
Economic Philosophies of Capitalism, Communism and Islam
Interest as a Threat to Peace
Simple Lifestyle
Matrimonial Expense
Moderation in Eating Habits
Prohibition of Bribery
Commercial Ethics
Political Peace
Political Peace Has to Be Carefully Examined at the National and International Level...219
No Outright Condemnation of Any Political System...220
Monarchy.....................................................................221
Defining Democracy.............................................. 224
Islamic Definition of Democracy ........................... 226
Two Pillars of Islamic Concept of Democracy.....226
Mutual Consultation Preferred ..........................227
The Confusion as to the True Nature of Islamic Government ....... 230
Divine Authority........................................................ 230
Mullahism .................................................................... 232
Divided Loyalties between the State and the Religion .............. 235
Should Religion Have Exclusive Legislative Authority? .......... 236
Islamic Statecraft ........................................................ 241
International Relations—The Principle of Absolute Justice Equally Applicable to All...... 245
Individual Peace
To Be at Peace with Oneself
Vying with One Another in Good Deeds
Love Between Kith and Kin
Serving Others
Seeking the Pleasure of God
A Constant Awareness of Other Human Beings
A Wider Sphere of Loving Care
The object of Man’s Creation
Without God, There Can Be No Peace

and more at https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf


5-Holy Prophet brought perfect religious law / shariah, obviously it was for his followers. When he migrated to Madina, he was chosen as head of area. Thus two titles (Prophet + Head of area) were combined in his Holy Self. Latter when Mecca fell peacefully, he became a Head of State as well.

6- After Holy Prophet passed away, his successors (Khulafa, plural of Khalifah) were chosen. Because they were successors of a Holy Person who was Prophet + Head of State, therefore these Khulafa assumed spiritual (to keep check on morals of Muslims) and administrative duties.

7- Holy Quran had prophesied about Khilafat with condition (of have belief and who do good deeds) :

Please read next pages too @
The Holy Quran


8- Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) had foretold about Khilafat and its disappearance and re emergence as:
a- “Prophethood will remain among you as long as Allah wills. Then Allah, the Exalted will take it away.”

b- “Then Khilafat on the lines of Prophethood shall commence as long as Allah wills. Then Allah, the Exalted will take away this.”

c-“Then tyrannical monarchy would be established, it will be there as long as Allah wills. Then Allah, the Exalted will take it away.”

d- “Then despotic kingship would emerge. It will stay as long as Allah wills. Then Allah, the Exalted will take it away.”

e-“Then (again), Khilafat on the precept of Prophethood shall be established. Then he became silent.”

[Ref: Narrated by Hadhrat Huzaifa (r.a), Musnad Ahmad, Mishkaat]


It happened exactly like that, after Holy Prophet (pbuh), Four Righteous Khulafa appeared, then Khilafat ended and kings came as prophesied.......Then as mentioned in above (e) Khilafat on the precept of Prophethood was to appear. But as the words indicate, a Prophet was must to appear. He was to be subordinate to Holy Prophet (pbuh), whose mention is also mentioned in following line of facts:

HOLY QURAN TEACHES A PRAYER IN ITS BEGINNING:
[ch1:v6] Guide us in the right path;
[ch1:v7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowedThy blessings, those who have not incurredThy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.


WHAT ARE THESE BLESSINGS
[ch4:v70] And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings, namely, the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these.

Clearly, Prophethood is the first blessings of the four blessings mentioned.


HOW IT TOOK PLACE
[ch62:v3] He it is Who has raised among the Unlettered people a Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His verses, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and wisdom, although they had been, before, in manifest misguidance;

[ch62:v4]And among others from among them, who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise.


ABOUT THE VERSE (62:4) HOLY PROPHET (PBUH) EXPLAINED
The Companion Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: One day we were sitting with Holy Prophet when Surah Jumua was revealed. I enquired from the Holy Prophet, Who are the people to whom the words, "And among others who have not yet joined them" Salman, the Persian was sitting among us. Upon my repeated asking him the same question the Holy Prophet put his hand on Salman and said;If faith were to go up to the Pleiades, a man from these would surely find it. [Ref: Book of Hadith, Bukhari]

From other Ahadith, this is the man who is second coming (metaphor, once gone never come again, their like ones do come; as in Elijah / John the Baptist case ) of Messiah and also Mahdi. Titles carry meaning of peace and guidance from God. Holy Prophet (pbuh) clearly saw two very different men as Jesus, in his dreams; one was reddish with curly hairs [follower of Moses], the other was man of brownish skin with straight hairs [Asian] circuiting around Kaaba while antichrist too was circuiting. [Both Ahadith in Bukhari]


According to Ahmadiyya Muslim this servant of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) came in 1889 in India and pre-told earthly and heavenly signs which were beyond human design were shown by Allah, [e.g A PROPHESIED HEAVENLY SIGN WAS SHOWN TWO TIMES TO WHOLE WORLD , ONCE IN SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE AND THEN IN NORTHERN HEMISPHERE The Truth About Eclipses
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/articles/new/TruthAboutEclipses.html]



9-This Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah Mahdi (a.s.) reminded people about Living God, pure teaching of Islam, and ways of his beloved master Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) through all peaceful means.

10-After him, JUST AS HOLY PROPHET (PBUH) PROPHESIED, Khilafat began and now Fifth Ahmadiyya Khalifa is in office by the grace of Allah. He is Khalifah of Promised Messiah Mahdi (a.t.), leading millions of peaceful Muslims in 206 countries, all loyal and best citizens of their respective countries with torch of love of Allah, Holy Quran, Holy Prophet Muhammad, All Prophets, Khilafat, all Humanity and all creation of Allah in their hearts.
[Ref: Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad | Fifth Khalifa of Ahmadiyya Community | Current Head of Ahmadiyya Community
wwwDOTalislamDOT.org/khilafat/fifth/]



11- Since Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah Mahdi was not a head of state, therefore Ahmadiyya Khulafa are not so, they oversee and make sure Ahmadiyya Muslims walk on right path, worldwide morally and spiritually. [point explained by second Ahmadiyya Khalifah also called Musleh Moud, The Fadl-i-'Umar Foundation
wwwDOTfazleumarfoundationDOTorg/


12-In depth knowledge about Khilafat at
Khilafat | Caliphate | The Guided Khilafat | Khilafat e Ahmadiyya - Al Islam Online
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/topics/khilafat/

more in Ahmadiyya DIR.

Thank you and good wishes.

 

[Bobbyh]

In Quran, Allah says this is the true deen. The word "deen" means "rules" or "system". Its translated as "religion" in English.

Ahh, cool. So there is a word that encompasses both. So when people speak of Islam as being both political and religious, that is maybe inaccurate. The truth it seems is that Islamic practice aims to be of "deen" characteristics, and not necessarily targeted at fulfilling political and religious definitions alone. So other religiously influenced people may misunderstand this as they may label Islam as being two separate incorrect terms which causes conflict in communication on the syntax level at the very least, but most likely at higher levels of communication as well.

I think it's beneficial to understand the context of thought which is interpreted with different categories of metaphors. It's very easy to associate familiarity, but this comes at the cost of accuracy in interpretation. And when there are actual differences in definitions of words used, there are actual differences in thoughts associated with them. I think it would be helpful to not classify Islam as religious or political and rather as "deen". Religion and politics are more general descriptors that lack some significance and lose information about the authorship and intent of the category "deen". Where deen describes something completely unique though it may have characteristics of both religion and politics it is still neither religion nor politics as those are different things. This isn't to say the concept of deen or of Islam is not associated with religion and/or politics, only that the hybrid relation of politics and religion is not an accurate interpretation of the intent of the word, "Islamic". Where the best way to linguistically think of Islam when referring to it is as being deen or a deen (whichever justification is appropriate for noun or adjective), rather than simply being thought of as a religious governance.

Thank you all for the information. Peace be on you guys too

 

[Khudayar]

Salam.

Except for the NoX's reply, I think none of the posts here are related to the first post. And I urge sectarian brethren here to leave this promotion of sects aside (at least not by posting such views under unrelated topics), because it is not helping the religion of Islam, nor it is helping the sects of Islam which you belong to. Cause propagation in inapropriate times would backfire and alienate them to your sects.

And about the topic, on whatever discussed here, I want to add to what Bobbyh said; that the term "deen" unlike most Muslims suppose is not used for Islam only. In fact the Holy Quran refers to the (path, outlook, system and lifestyles) of idolworshippers and disbelievers as "deen" also.

Please see Chapter #109 (AL-KAFIRUN / the Disbelievers) in the Holy Quran;

Say, ‘O faithless ones! (1) I do not worship what you worship, (2) nor do you worship what I worship; (3) nor will I worship what you have worshipped, (4) nor will you worship what I worship. (5) To you your DEEN (religion), and to me my DEEN (religion).’ (6)

Thus, according to the Holy Quran, even Arab idolworshippers had a DEEN (religion, lifestyle, i.e. the system which people shaped themselves according to). So, not only Muslims, other Abrahamic faiths as well, and even polytheists and atheists have a DEEN.

As for the main question, yes, DEEN covers one's lifestyle, outlook, manners, views about anything which of course covers the aspects of family, ethics, politics, millitary, economics, etc.

Sorry for rambling. And thanks for your patience. Blessings my friends.