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Is THIS enough to stop Islamophobic nonsense?

nazz

Doubting Thomas
I hope this won't spark another debate over the use of the term "Islamophobia". FTR, I define Islamophobia as fear and hatred of Islam and Muslims based on ignorance.

So the Islamophobes tell us all Muslims are just like ISIS. They all want to kill us for not being Muslim. Even if they deny that they are just lying as their religion instructs them to do. Or they are ignorant of what their religion really teaches. Yet here we see a predominantly MUSLIM nation going to war to avenge the death of CHRISTIANS! Why are they not celebrating their deaths instead? I would really like to hear from some our resident Islamophobes on this.

Isis: Egypt joins attacks with air strikes avenging massacre - Middle East - World - The Independent
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
Well Egypt is certainly better than ISIS. They only imprison atheists and homosexuals, instead of beheading them or stoning them or throwing them off buildings. For now, anyway.

Who are RF's "resident Islamophobes" btw?
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
So the Islamophobes tell us all Muslims are just like ISIS.
...here? ...on RF? Care to list out these Islamophobes by name? You aren't giving me much here to go from. There are many critics of radical Islam, yes. But those who type out that "all Muslims are just like ISIS" are pretty rare. Unless you have access to highly secret RF forum sections where stuff like "all Muslims are just like ISIS" goes on constantly, word for word, I'm afraid this is pretty much demagoguery.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
...here? ...on RF? Care to list out these Islamophobes by name? You aren't giving me much here to go from. There are many critics of radical Islam, yes. But those who type out that "all Muslims are just like ISIS" are pretty rare. Unless you have access to highly secret RF forum sections where stuff like "all Muslims are just like ISIS" goes on constantly, word for word, I'm afraid this is pretty much demagoguery.
I'm sorry it is not rare at all. I see it all the time including right here. They may not phrase it that exact way but that is the belief. That all true Muslims want us dead or converted.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
You know what? I am not going to even address the cross talk on the word "Islamophobe". Let's see if any have the guts to come forward. I'm betting they won't.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I'm sorry it is not rare at all. I see it all the time including right here. They may not phrase it that exact way but that is the belief. That all true Muslims want us dead or converted.
Detail it for me, por favor ... detail the articulations where "all true Muslims want us dead or converted". I need empirical data. Please be kind as to provide it so it can support the affirmations you have made in the OP. Thank you.
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
...here? ...on RF? Care to list out these Islamophobes by name? You aren't giving me much here to go from. There are many critics of radical Islam, yes. But those who type out that "all Muslims are just like ISIS" are pretty rare. Unless you have access to highly secret RF forum sections where stuff like "all Muslims are just like ISIS" goes on constantly, word for word, I'm afraid this is pretty much demagoguery.

I have a feeling that most of the people who are posting in response to this thread would be so labeled. Just a hunch...
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
You know what? I am not going to even address the cross talk on the word "Islamophobe". Let's see if any have the guts to come forward. I'm betting they won't.

So all present company is not included in the Islamophobe label?
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
I have to bring this meme here also, it seems to be extremely needed when dealing with opinions and feelings on Islam.

strawman-demo1.jpg
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
My last comment on the cross talk. It blows my mind that so many are so woefully ignorant that these ideas exist and can easily be found all over the internet.

I will now await a response from an actual Islamophobe.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
I think one must make a differentiation. I, though in jest called myself an "Islamophobe", don't hate Muslims. I don't think anyone on this site hates Muslims as a group, judging them all as the same. So as to the event in question: Great! I desire the complete destruction of ISIS and if Egypt wants to do it, let them! Good! But perhaps Egypt is being a little hypocritical here, because its track record of how it has treated the Copts is not a very good one. Not to mention Atheists, gays, &c.

I, however, will openly say that I don't like Islam, the religion; what it teaches and what it inspires. Islam inspired ISIS. Does anyone want to argue against that? It inspired Al-Qaeda. It inspired The Muslim Brotherhood. The Taliban. The list goes on.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
It's good to see Egypt doing something about this, but they still treat non-believers like dirt when they find them. If that changes I would love to visit for the rich history.
 
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gsa

Well-Known Member
Not so far. Just people who suffer from Islamophobiaphobia.

Many Muslims and ex-Muslims reject the label, too. See here.

My last comment on the cross talk. It blows my mind that so many are so woefully ignorant that these ideas exist and can easily be found all over the internet.

I will now await a response from an actual Islamophobe.

You say you don't want cross-talk, but let's take a look at the OP:

So the Islamophobes tell us all Muslims are just like ISIS. They all want to kill us for not being Muslim.

You are being unfair to ISIS here aren't you? After all, ISIS doesn't advocate the murder of all religious minorities; some of them enjoy Islamist "tolerance" in the form of the Jizyah tax for dhimmis.

Even if they deny that they are just lying as their religion instructs them to do.

I assume you are talking about Islamic dissimulation. It exists, and for historically valid reasons. But the actual critique is usually one of obfuscation, and this is one of the reasons that I appreciate the honesty of some Muslim posters here, like Servant of the One. He believes in punishment for apostasy and insulting Islam, and homosexuality. Many devout Muslims in the US and especially Europe believe the same, but are not willing to discuss it openly.

Or they are ignorant of what their religion really teaches.

Many Muslims are ignorant about what their religion teaches. Is this that surprising, given your own experience with Christianity and other religions more familiar to Westerners?

Yet here we see a predominantly MUSLIM nation going to war to avenge the death of CHRISTIANS! Why are they not celebrating their deaths instead? I would really like to hear from some our resident Islamophobes on this.


Full stop. Egypt is not going to war for Christians. Egypt attacked Libya, alongside the UEA, back in August.

Twice in the last seven days, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates have secretly launched airstrikes against Islamist-allied militias battling for control of Tripoli, Libya, four senior American officials said, in a major escalation of a regional power struggle set off by Arab Spring revolts.

The United States, the officials said, was caught by surprise: Egypt and the Emirates, both close allies and military partners, acted without informing Washington, leaving the Obama administration on the sidelines. Egyptian officials explicitly denied to American diplomats that their military played any role in the operation, the officials said, in what appeared a new blow to already strained relations between Washington and Cairo.


The strikes in Tripoli are another salvo in a power struggle defined by Arab autocrats battling Islamist movements seeking to overturn the old order. Since the military ouster of the Islamist president in Egypt last year, the new government and its backers in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have launched a campaign across the region — in the news media, in politics and diplomacy, and by arming local proxies — to roll back what they see as an existential threat to their authority posed by Islamist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood.


What makes the most recent strike different is that it was publicly acknowledged. And this is consistent with the nationalist posture of the Egyptian government, as you can see from the military statement from your linked BBC article:

“We assure that we will take revenge for Egyptian blood and that taking punishment against criminal killers is our right and duty,” said a video message posted on Facebook by the Egyptian military.


And this:

“The Egyptians couldn’t be seen to be acting less ferociously than Jordan did in response to the murder of the pilot. The Egyptian action is clearly a serious involvement, rather than simply window-dressing,” said Sir Richard Dalton, the UK’s former ambassador to Libya and Iran. “But it will take much more than one day’s bombing to address the situation.”


Meanwhile, as I said, Egypt has cracked down on atheism, homosexuality and liberalism domestically, because it is a savage, authoritarian military state that acts like every other savage, authoritarian state in the region.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I hope this won't spark another debate over the use of the term "Islamophobia". FTR, I define Islamophobia as fear and hatred of Islam and Muslims based on ignorance.

I hope you mean unjustified fear, or at least that you are emphasizing hatred. It may be very reasonable and rational to have fears based on ignorance. It does not have to be a "phobia".


So the Islamophobes tell us all Muslims are just like ISIS. They all want to kill us for not being Muslim. Even if they deny that they are just lying as their religion instructs them to do. Or they are ignorant of what their religion really teaches.

Then there might be very few Islamophobes after all, and it would be a misleading, ill-chosen name for that label anyway.

Personally, I think that a fair number of Muslism are indeed ignorant of the actual teachings of the Quran (quite often they seem to end up trusting some authority's call instead), but also that for the most part Muslism are simply on denial about the actual consequences of their beliefs as stated. Most recently I have come to wonder whether they simply lack the social parameters to fully understand them as well.


Yet here we see a predominantly MUSLIM nation going to war to avenge the death of CHRISTIANS! Why are they not celebrating their deaths instead?

Because they are not monsters, and do not want to become monsters either?


I would really like to hear from some our resident Islamophobes on this.

Good luck finding anyone who will accept that label.



Somewhat nice to know, but not all that reassuring. I abhor the airstrikes. They solve nothing.
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Well Egypt is certainly better than ISIS. They only imprison atheists and homosexuals, instead of beheading them or stoning them or throwing them off buildings. For now, anyway.

Who are RF's "resident Islamophobes" btw?

And some imprisoned who denied the holocaust, Israelophobia

Early in September 2004, Michael Cullen, the deputy prime minister of New Zealand, announced that Irving would not be permitted to visit the country, where he had been invited by the National Press Club to give a series of lectures under the heading "The Problems of Writing about World War II in a Free Society". The National Press Club defended its invitation of Irving, saying that it amounted not to an endorsement of his views, but rather an opportunity to question him. A government spokeswoman said that "people who have been deported from another country are refused entry" to New Zealand. Irving rejected the ban and attempted to board a Qantas flight for New Zealand from Los Angeles on 17 September 2004. He was not allowed on board.[112]

On 11 November 2005, the Austrian police in the southern state of Styria, acting under the 1989 warrant, arrested Irving. Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of "trivialising, grossly playing down and denying the Holocaust" and was sentenced to three years' imprisonment in accordance with the law prohibiting National Socialist activities (officially Verbotsgesetz, "Prohibition Statute"). After he was arrested, Irving claimed in his plea that he changed his opinions on the Holocaust, "I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."[113] Irving sat motionless as Liebtreu asked him if he had understood the sentence, to which he replied "I'm not sure I do" before being bundled out of the court by Austrian police. Later, Irving declared himself shocked by the severity of the sentence. He had reportedly already purchased a plane ticket home to London.[114]

In December 2006, Irving was released from prison, and banned from ever returning to Austria.[115] Upon Irving's arrival in the UK he reaffirmed his position, stating that he felt "no need any longer to show remorse" for his Holocaust views.[116] Since then, Irving has continued to work as a freelance writer, despite his troubled public image. He was drawn into the controversy surrounding Bishop Richard Williamson, who in a televised interview recorded in Germany in November 2008 denied the Holocaust took place, only to see Williamson convicted for incitement in April 2010 after refusing to pay a fine of 12,000 euros.[117][118][119] Irving subsequently found himself beset by protesters on a book tour of the United States.[120] Irving has actively toured the United States, lecturing to far right groups and on one occasion a knife fight broke out.[121][122] Irving has also given lectures and tours in the UK and Europe; one tour in September 2010 which led to particular criticism included the Treblinka death camp.[123]

As of 2013 Irving was lecturing to small audiences at secret venues on topics like alleged Jewish conspiracies and alleged exaggeration of the holocaust.[124]

David Irving - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I'm sorry it is not rare at all. I see it all the time including right here. They may not phrase it that exact way but that is the belief. That all true Muslims want us dead or converted.

How many Muslims do you expect not to want everyone else converted?
 
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