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Is the political climate radicalizing moderate Muslims?

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
I'm going to share two completely different stories from two corners of Europe, both that depict a growing frustration with the status quo and the character of the war on terror, and Europe's reaction to it.

The first comes from the United Kingdom.

Hammasa Kohistani, a 19-year-old British Muslim, is anything but a fundamentalist. In fact, she's Miss England - and is perhaps one of the most despised and ridiculed figures in Britain's Islamic community.

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From the Agence France Presse:

LONDON -- The first Muslim to be voted Miss England hit out at British Prime Minister Tony Blair Thursday, accusing him of fueling hostility toward Islam following last year's London bombings.

Hammasa Kohistani, 19, born in Uzbekistan after her parents fled the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, said that the lethal attacks had united British communities, but added that the government had created "negative stereotypes" of Muslims in the wake of the blasts.

Kohistani was speaking as she returned to resume her studies at Uxbridge College in West London after a year of traveling the world appearing in newspapers and magazines.

She said that the July 7 bombings, which killed 56 people including the four British Muslim suicide bombers, was a "reality slap" for those who thought that such attacks would never occur in Britain.

"I think in a sense it brought communities together," she told Britain's domestic Press Association news agency. But at the same time "there is this hostility," which comes "mainly from the government."

"Tony Blair addressed Muslims in particular, telling them that they need to sort out the problem within. That was a huge stereotype of the Islamic community.

"Even the more moderate Muslims have been stereotyped negatively and feel they have to take actions to prove themselves."

Kohistani's coronation as Miss England in 2005 sparked anger among some highly traditional Muslims who felt that she and other Muslims should not have competed.

Kohistani said that she would be selective about her modeling work as she completes the A-Level examinations that should enable her to study for a politics degree at university, with an eye on a political career afterwards.

She speaks several languages and will study A-Level politics, sociology, and media studies. She has already passed in English literature.

Kohistani said that she sometimes got annoyed about being asked about Islam and politics, given her coronation two months after the London bombings.

However, she admitted that it separated her from the pack.

"At first it was quite rewarding and I enjoyed it. But after the first 200 interviews, I realized that it was all about me being Muslim," she said.

"No one wanted to know my favorite movie or favorite food and other usual Miss England questions."

**********

Alma Prsic is a 23-year-old Bosnian Muslim, and is also anything but a fundamentalist. She's the spokeswoman for a popular brand of Bosnian beer and has posed almost nude in several Bosnian men's magazines.



From the Muslim Voice magazine:

Buzim, Bosnia and Herzegovina - The old, wooden mosque in Buzim has been buzzing with more activity than usual this summer.

The reserved and conservative inhabitants of this isolated village have a woman long described as a devil in silk lingerie in their midst. Alma Prsic, of Preminger fame, has adopted Buzim as a summer resident while she puts the finishing on touches on a new book about sexual liberation and the never spoken but universally known talent Muslim women have for sexual seduction and the experience of pleasure.

"We are the women who brought sex to life," Prsic explained in her signature, thick Travnik accent.

"If not for us, non-Muslim women would still know nothing more than platonic Germanic folk dances and country line-dancing."

And its that willingness to differentiate so easily and so completely between Muslim and non-Muslim that has placed Alma Prsic squarely in the sights of the Interfaith Council. Jewish and Christian representatives of the Council have condemned Prsic for public comments they claim incite hatred and fuel nationalism among Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

In an official letter printed in Liberation News, the Council cited a June 2005 speech to the Muslim Women's League in which Prsic allegedly compared Christian women to "frozen, surrogates raising an androgenous race of fools all too eager to pick up a gun but terrified by the sight of a woman's nipple".

"She is as careless with her words as she has been with her body," the letter, also signed by Islamic representative Elena Hodzic, read.

"We urge Ms. Prsic to recognize the error of her ways and, more importantly, issue a public apology for the baseless offenses she has caused."

Prsic, who refused comment, has also come under fire from Islamic organizations, opposition she has labelled in the past as the "background music" of her life. In Buzim, opinions are torn, but most will not lose too much sleep once Prsic is gone.

"I think she's a sort of role model," said Samir Osmanovic, 32.

"Celebrities need to be extreme in order to have an impact and she has raised the bar such that ordinary Muslim women are able to live more liberally in rural communities like ours. They always can say 'think what you want, at least I'm not Alma Prsic'."

**********

The world is becoming weirder every day. :D
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It would not surprise me if European Muslims were being radicalized. My impression is that European Muslims are far less assimilated into the societies they live in than are American Muslims. What would surprise me is if American Muslims were becoming radicalized. But I don't see that happening. Most American Muslims are both well assimilated and rather patriotic.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
European Muslims also includes many indigenous Muslims who are assimilated, or actually are the society in their regions. These include small populations in countries like Poland, Ukraine, Slovenia, Croatia, and so on. It also includes large populations in countries like Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bulgaria, and Russia. And also enormous populations in countries like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, and Turkey.

So the assimilation theory doesn't work here, and this strikes me because - believe me - you could find more true fundamentalists in London alone than all these countries I listed above combined.

So maybe assimilation plays a point.

But fundamentalism is also growing, very weakly, in the European countries I listed and in these regions assimilation cannot be a factor.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
I can comment on this. I've been among Bosniaks in Canada, and I know many Bosniaks in America from all of our community forums and online chat sites.

They all tell me the same thing: In cities with enormous Bosniak populations - like New York, St. Louis, Seattle, etc... they can always tell when a girl is Bosnian. They can tell by how she wears or hair, or how her make-up is applied, or how she walks - but they can tell.

They all tend to migrate to areas surrounding their local mosque, and mosque openly refuse to worship at mosques that are run by any other Muslim group, because it differs so much from their traditions.

They hold their folk festivals, their own beauty pageants (Miss Bosnia USA this year is Dzenana Delic! :D), go to Bosnian-language schools, and so on.

There is absolutely no desire to assimilate. Now it doesn't come across as strong with Bosniaks because the generic, European base of our culture is the same as many Americans have. But rest assured, they have not assimilated. All their money goes back to Bosnia, their online jokes are like...

How can you tell you're a Bosniak in America?

"Your mother has a brand new home with modern appliances, but still cooks in the basement on the old stove from Bosnia"

"Your parents blast Bosnian folk music whenever you're in the car just to make sure no non-Bosnian men will even consider you"

"Your father yells at Bosnian kids for speaking English"

Etc. Those jokes are jokes, but they reveal the sentiment.

So I can vouch that Bosniaks in North America are not really assimilated.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Take Vienna, Austria - as another example. It is estimated that more than 50% of Vienna's population is now composed by people from the former Yugoslavia.

Some of them, like Hispanics in the USA, even refer to Vienna by the name "Bec", its ancient Slavic name, and wear t-shirts with "Nas Bec" (Our Bec) and Becka Raja (Bec Crew/Homies). They believe in populating the area and taking it back.

Most don't though, of course.

But they are having an impact. Street-signs often have Serbo-Croatian on them now, discos like Disko Planet serve an almost exclusively Yugoslav audience - bringing in all the stars from Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia.

Etc.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Upon what do you base this?

Among others, Marc Sageman, who studies how people are recruited into terrorist cells, has pointed out the patriotism of American Muslims, and has also pointed out that their patriotism has been grossly under reported. Many people agree with him, including Daniel Benjamin, formerly with the National Security Council, and author of The Next Attack. According to Benjamin, the patriotism of American Muslims has been "our first line of defense" against terrorist attack.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Djamila said:
I can comment on this. I've been among Bosniaks in Canada, and I know many Bosniaks in America from all of our community forums and online chat sites.

They all tell me the same thing: In cities with enormous Bosniak populations - like New York, St. Louis, Seattle, etc... they can always tell when a girl is Bosnian. They can tell by how she wears or hair, or how her make-up is applied, or how she walks - but they can tell.

They all tend to migrate to areas surrounding their local mosque, and mosque openly refuse to worship at mosques that are run by any other Muslim group, because it differs so much from their traditions.

They hold their folk festivals, their own beauty pageants (Miss Bosnia USA this year is Dzenana Delic! :D), go to Bosnian-language schools, and so on.

There is absolutely no desire to assimilate. Now it doesn't come across as strong with Bosniaks because the generic, European base of our culture is the same as many Americans have. But rest assured, they have not assimilated. All their money goes back to Bosnia, their online jokes are like...

How can you tell you're a Bosniak in America?

"Your mother has a brand new home with modern appliances, but still cooks in the basement on the old stove from Bosnia"

"Your parents blast Bosnian folk music whenever you're in the car just to make sure no non-Bosnian men will even consider you"

"Your father yells at Bosnian kids for speaking English"

Etc. Those jokes are jokes, but they reveal the sentiment.

So I can vouch that Bosniaks in North America are not really assimilated.

Give them one or two more generations. Some groups tend be hold outs to assimilation, like the Germans and Jews were. But assimilation is inevitable in the States. We're not Eurpope.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
I don't know, Sunstone. Bosniaks recently celebrated the 100th anniversary of their mass-migration to the United States, the bulk of the Bosnian community in the United States trace their roots back to this migration - and they've still not assimilated.

Bosniak Cultural Centre, Chicago, Illinois
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Celebration of 100 Years of Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in America:
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Well, I've never studied the Bosnians in America, so I can't really say. But my hunch is a great deal might depend on what you mean by assimilation. There are a couple of small towns not too far from where I grew up that still speak the language of their ancestors (which happens in this case to be German), but the citizens of those two small towns are fully American, even though they have retained German as their primary language for over a 100 years. But I don't know a thing about American Bosnians.
 

kai

ragamuffin
there is little to no integration or assimilation in Britain the policy of multiculteralism over the years means that we have enclaves of communities in mainly major cities that are not british in culture. the radicalisation comes from the teaching of a certain brand of Islam that is basically anti semitic and anti western culture, there are even calls for sharia to be allowed within these comunities,recently we had calls to change British foriegn policy because it was radicalising muslim youth in particular. I personally think that the muslim community in general dont seem to have any leaders as such so there is no one in authority to say this is right this is wrong, for every moderate there is an extremist. Tony Blair was right the fight to stop this radicalisation begins in the muslim community first, it is interesting to note that most arrests for terrorist offences seem to be recent converts to Islam,
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
[SIZE=+2]A Century of Islam in America[/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]by Syed Dr. Yvonne Y. Haddad[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Reprinted from Hamdard Islamicus Vo. XXI, No. 4 ©1997 [/SIZE][/FONT]Although Islam is one of the world's greatest religions, numbering nearly a billion adherents or about a fifth of the world's population, it is not normally associated with the United States. But Islam is also an American religion. It has about three million adherents in this country [some authorities estimate 5 million] making it larger than say, the total membership of the Episcopal Church, or that of the United Church. About six hundred mosques and other Islamic centres are currently functioning throughout the country, the heaviest concentration is in the East Coast, the Midwest, the South and California.
http://muslim-canada.org/HamdardCentury.html
 

c0da

Active Member
I don't think the government are radicalizing moderate Muslims. The British government bends over backwards to not offend Muslims and to make them feel accomodated, and in the wake of the 7th July London bombings, to ask moderate Muslims to try to quell the radicals within them is certainly not unreasonable and definitely can not be offered as a possible reason to why some moderates might turn radical.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
c0da said:
I don't think the government are radicalizing moderate Muslims. The British government bends over backwards to not offend Muslims and to make them feel accomodated, and in the wake of the 7th July London bombings, to ask moderate Muslims to try to quell the radicals within them is certainly not unreasonable and definitely can not be offered as a possible reason to why some moderates might turn radical.
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It's useful to distinguish between radicalism and barbarism.​
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Djamila said:
How can you tell you're a Bosniak in America?

"Your mother has a brand new home with modern appliances, but still cooks in the basement on the old stove from Bosnia"

"Your parents blast Bosnian folk music whenever you're in the car just to make sure no non-Bosnian men will even consider you"

"Your father yells at Bosnian kids for speaking English"

Etc. Those jokes are jokes, but they reveal the sentiment.

So I can vouch that Bosniaks in North America are not really assimilated.

I think this is an eastern European thing, really. Those jokes could almost as easily be applied to Romanians or Greeks living in the UK. I don't think that this means they aren't assimilated - outside of the confines of their particular community they certainly are - but rather that they wish to hold onto their traditions and cultural heritage. A certain degree of non-assimilation, in the appropriate context, helps to do this. Personally, I'm quite glad of this. I'm very happy that I'm now part of a distinct community where people go out of their way to look out for each other rather than the strange homogenised non-community I grew up in (which seems more often than not to be the norm here for English people, especially in the cities).

James
 
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