Sonny, you are using a very circular argument here.
Your criticism of him is only valid if Joseph Smith was NOT a prophet. If he was, then he was indeed what you are criticizing him for claiming that he was. Why are you criticizing him for telling the truth?
What you can't do, logically, is to use what YOU say his claims were to prove that he was not what he claimed to be.
I mean, really, Sonny:
Is it logical to claim that if a man says he's an astronaut, this proves that he's NOT one? I think that if the man claiming to be one was John Glenn, you might have a problem with your logic.
Or, as Walt Whitman said, "if you done it, it ain't bragging."]/quote]
So you are admitting that JS is greater/did more than Jesus Christ? Am I hearing you right? First off, there is no proof that JS was even a preacher of God, let alone a prophet. As the National Geographic Society and the Smithsonian Institutes stated, when some of us wrote them in the 90s, nothing JS said about the BoM is scientific or true from any scientific POV. His claims, such as they were, cannot be verified or proved. The LDS church actually states/teaches that everything must be tested and proved/verified for it to be believed or true. JS fails, imo, the tests of the Bible and his own church's teachings about truth/facts.
How can we know for certainty 'if' JS was a true Prophet of God or a complete fraud and false prophet of the devil? (OP- finding this out will determine if the LDS is Christian or not)
Since, we believe, God never fails in anything he says or does- He is All-Powerful and All-Knowing- it stands to reason that if God said it nothing can change or prevent it. Describing a false prophet is just as easy. They do the opposite of what a true Prophet of God does. They lie, deceive, give fake revelations and false prophecies. In fact, I'll let Joseph Smith describe how to tell a false spirit (angel and prophet) from a true one.
In Hoc. 4:571-581, Titled "Try the spirits", Joseph Smith, speaking about the Egyptian's and Moses' "miracles", declared they (Egyptians) couldn't tell who the miracles came from "until they came to be tested together." (571)
He says every one who speaks for God professes to be competent to "try his neighbor's spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason?" Because there is "no criterion (set measures, rules, tests) whereby they can test it." (573)
He went on to say all nations and all religions, including LDS, have had false spirits in, and "have been deceived" by them (573). And, he says, "for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God." (573)
JS says, Moses could "show (again, proof or tests) he was God's servant" (575).
"The Ephesian church were enabled (to determine true from false) by this principle, "to try those that said they were apostles, and were not, and found them liars." (Rev. ii:2 [or, Rev. 2:2])" (575)
Lastly, JS said two of the ways to tell a false angel is, "By the color of his hair." (Sonny- Really?!) "And by his contradicting a former revelation (applies to spirits and prophets). (581)
JS says prophecy (revelation) (574), the Priesthood (574, 580), the evidence (prove or test- if their prophecy came true or not) (577-579, 581) and the Scriptures or word of God (576, 581 ) are the means to test the spirits and know who it is from (Devil or God).
I wonder, since JS said the priesthood and revelation were two of the means, how do we know God even spoke to JS? After all, the only evidence we have is JS's own words to that effect- and that is simply not good enough for any truth seeker. Where is the proof (which JS said was needed) and what do the scriptures say about JS words (prophecies, revelations, doctrines)?
We must test what anyone says when it comes to God. But, what are the best tests?
Feelings? No, the Bible never speaks of feelings as a way to 'know' or 'test' anything from God.
Take their word on it? No, never. People love to lie, cheat, steal and defraud others- even, or especially, in religion.
Examine the evidence? Yes. First and foremost examine the evidence. The Bible and LDS leaders/doctrine say to test the evidence.
What is the evidence? It is what they said and what God's Holy Word (Scriptures) states.
How do we test it? By the tests given in the Bible and whether or not their words (doctrines, revelations, prophecies) are consistent and come true.
We know the Bible goes against JS's teachings. And, we know JS's own teachings (doctrines and prophecies) contradict themselves. But, what about LDS leaders? What have they said about JS being a prophet? Here are some of their words.
"Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of JS. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND (emphasis mine). If JS was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, THEN HE SHOULD BE EXPOSED; HIS CLAIMS SHOULD BE REFUTED, AND HIS DOCTRINES SHOWN TO BE FALSE, for the doctrines of an imposter cannot be made to harmonize in all particulars with divine truth. If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect. The doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the scriptures (Doctrines of Salvation (DoS) 1:188)
Okay, the LDS want us to test what JS said and did (but they get mad at me and slur, name-call when I do what they said I should. Imagine that one). And we know how- the evidence and the Bible. But what about Joseph Smith's own words? Did he say something about true and false prophets and how one could 'prove' which one someone was. If so, what did JS say is the way to 'know' a false prophet from a true one? Here are Joseph Smith's own words.
"And by his contradicting a former revelation" (581)
And,
"When, therefore, ANY man, NO MATTER WHO OR HOW HIGH HIS STANDING MAY BE, UTTERS OR PUBLISHES ANYTHING WHICH AFTERWARDS PROVES TO BE UNTRUE, HE IS A FALSE PROPHET! (HoC 1:373, ft. nt.)
Some prophecies I believe JS was wrong on-
Kinderhook Plates
BoM being 'fullness of everlasting gospel' -most of LDS church's main doctrines aren't in the 'fullness' BoM
He did more than Jesus
"I shall triumph over all my enemies, for the Lord God hath spoken it." (D&C 127:2)- Surely, it wasn't his family, friends or fellow church members who killed him. It was his enemies less than 2 years after stating this
Temple in Jackson, Mo- wasn't built and LDS don't even own the land
Going back to Jackson within 100 years- it passed and the LDS did not return- plus, the land is not owned by the LDS church
America to be destroyed (twice)
The next generation (after the one hearing him in 1832) will see Jesus' return
Oliver Granger
David Patten
The 12 in the celestial kingdom (D&C 137/HoC 2:380/81)
The Stars fall
Polygamy
Jesus created ALL things/Jesus was a man with a dad who had a dad, ad infinitum in eternity. This is an impossible contradiction in terminology- if one is true the other cannot be.
D&C 71
Inspired Bible
Well, that is a short list of JS 'many' failures as a prophet. From my POV he could not be a prophet of God's.
