Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
You can argue against what was written in a variety of ways, but calling unknown authors idiots doesn't buy you anything.
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Is religion against science?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
You can argue against what was written in a variety of ways, but calling unknown authors idiots doesn't buy you anything.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Why would these be the only options? And what do you mean by "quote from science". There is no authorities in science.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One could quote from a text book of science.
One could quote from a peer reviewed article published in journal of science of repute.
One could quote from the relative discipline of science which deals with the revealed religions, if any.
Regards
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Science doesn't have anything to say about belief in the supernatural though.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand the point of this thread right now. Why would a science text or paper be about religion? And why does it matter either way?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
The world will never know ...
gnostic
The Lost One
It doesn't.
Paarsurrey has been opening a number of threads he started, with asking people to provide peer-review journals and scientific textbooks, where there are none.
That way, he can claim his imaginary victories in debates.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The term "supernatural" is not relative to Quran. G-d created everything known to be natural, He could create anything like He created everything before, and that will also be natural as we humans understand.
Regards
leibowde84
Veteran Member
su·per·nat·u·ral
ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective
- (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature ("supernatural being").
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I never said that.
Regards
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Yes you did. You said that God was not supernatural. Thus, God must adhere to the laws of nature. Either that, or you made up a new meaning for the term supernatural.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please give post # where I said that. I think one understood it wrongly.
Regards
leibowde84
Veteran Member
gnostic
The Lost One
You can believe that God can create everything, but you can't verify that this is true, so your god is unverifiable and untestable, and therefore god would fall under the category of supernatural, just like ghosts, fairies and alien abductions.
There is also no way to verify your god being involve in the Qur'an, except Muhammad say-so, and that's not good enough. What Muhammad say is unverifiable, therefore it should be dismissed as either blind faith or a hoax created by Muhammad.
And if God is not subject to the law of nature, that would also put god in the supernatural category.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said :↑
Please give post # where I said that. I think one understood it wrongly.
Regards
paarsurrey said:↑
The term "supernatural" is not relative to Quran. G-d created everything known to be natural, He could create anything like He created everything before, and that will also be natural as we humans understand.
Regards
So you understood wrongly.
I meant whatever G-d created or creates is understood to be natural for us. G-d is the Creator and not the created.
Regards
Please give post # where I said that. I think one understood it wrongly.
Regards
paarsurrey said:↑
The term "supernatural" is not relative to Quran. G-d created everything known to be natural, He could create anything like He created everything before, and that will also be natural as we humans understand.
Regards
So you understood wrongly.
I meant whatever G-d created or creates is understood to be natural for us. G-d is the Creator and not the created.
Regards
leibowde84
Veteran Member
That is irrelevant then, which is why I was confused. So, God is supernatural then?
gnostic
The Lost One
God being the creator of this world in 6 days, is "supernatural", not "natural". It is also mythological.
And there is nothing "natural" about God being the creator, creating man (Adam) from clay. That's "supernatural"...and mythological.
God creating beings called jinns, as smokeless fire, also supernatural and mythological.
You trying to re-define supernatural is amusing to say the least.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
But, I didn't ask about God's creation. I asked whether God was limited by the laws of nature or whether he was supernatural.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Reference Post #77and post #78 ;I have already expressed my viewpoint vide post #75.
The term "supernatural" is not relevant to Quran. G-d created everything known to be natural, He could create anything like He created everything before, and that will also be natural as we humans understand.
I meant whatever G-d created or creates is understood to be natural for us. G-d is the Creator and not the created.
I further add etymology of the words nature, natural and supernatural:
na·ture
Origin
Middle English (denoting the physical power of a person): from Old French, from Latinnatura ‘birth, nature, quality,’ from nat- ‘born,’ from the verb nasci .
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=nature etymology
nat·u·ral
Origin
Middle English (in the sense ‘having a certain status by birth’): from Old French, from Latin naturalis, from natura ‘birth, nature, quality’ (seenature).
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=natural etymology
supernatural (adj.)
early 15c. “of or given by God,” from Medieval Latin supernaturalis “above or beyond nature, divine,” from Latinsuper “above” (see super-) + natura “nature” (see nature (n.)). Originally with more of a religious sense, “of or given by God, divine; heavenly;” association with ghosts, etc., has predominated since 19c. Related: Supernaturalism.
That is supernatural, whatever it be, that is either not in the chain of natural cause and effect, or which acts on the chain of cause and effect, in nature, from without the chain. [Horace Bushnell, “Nature and the Supernatural,” 1858]
supernatural (n.)
1729, “a supernatural being,” from supernatural(adj.). From 1830 as “that which is above or beyond the established course of nature.”
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=supernatural
Origin and history of the term (Supernatural)
The term “supernatural” itself did not come to be used until the 15th century and means, when translated literally from the Latin roots, “above nature.”
In the original sense of the coinage, though, it had the connotation of something that was “of or given by god.” By the 19th century, its usage had expanded to include other non-material mythical beings such as ghosts, demons, etc.[5] It is, however, worth noting that the natural/supernatural distinction is not universal. Some cultures such as the Nayaka (of India) and the Ojibwe do not have a concept of the supernatural.[6]
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Supernatural
Word "supernatural" did not exist in the time of Muhammad/Quran, it is a later coinage and hence not relevant to Quran.
Regards
The term "supernatural" is not relevant to Quran. G-d created everything known to be natural, He could create anything like He created everything before, and that will also be natural as we humans understand.
I meant whatever G-d created or creates is understood to be natural for us. G-d is the Creator and not the created.
I further add etymology of the words nature, natural and supernatural:
na·ture
Origin
Middle English (denoting the physical power of a person): from Old French, from Latinnatura ‘birth, nature, quality,’ from nat- ‘born,’ from the verb nasci .
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=nature etymology
nat·u·ral
Origin
Middle English (in the sense ‘having a certain status by birth’): from Old French, from Latin naturalis, from natura ‘birth, nature, quality’ (seenature).
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=natural etymology
supernatural (adj.)
early 15c. “of or given by God,” from Medieval Latin supernaturalis “above or beyond nature, divine,” from Latinsuper “above” (see super-) + natura “nature” (see nature (n.)). Originally with more of a religious sense, “of or given by God, divine; heavenly;” association with ghosts, etc., has predominated since 19c. Related: Supernaturalism.That is supernatural, whatever it be, that is either not in the chain of natural cause and effect, or which acts on the chain of cause and effect, in nature, from without the chain. [Horace Bushnell, “Nature and the Supernatural,” 1858]
supernatural (n.)
1729, “a supernatural being,” from supernatural(adj.). From 1830 as “that which is above or beyond the established course of nature.”http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=supernatural
Origin and history of the term (Supernatural)
The term “supernatural” itself did not come to be used until the 15th century and means, when translated literally from the Latin roots, “above nature.”
In the original sense of the coinage, though, it had the connotation of something that was “of or given by god.” By the 19th century, its usage had expanded to include other non-material mythical beings such as ghosts, demons, etc.[5] It is, however, worth noting that the natural/supernatural distinction is not universal. Some cultures such as the Nayaka (of India) and the Ojibwe do not have a concept of the supernatural.[6]
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Supernatural
Word "supernatural" did not exist in the time of Muhammad/Quran, it is a later coinage and hence not relevant to Quran.
Regards