Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[Harikrish]

What no Muslim is able to answer is why did God give the Muslims the Quran 600 years after he had already spoken to the Jews,Christians and finally the Gentiles?

The Quran was given so late to the Muslims that the majority of Muslims have not read it. Firstly because 800 million Muslims are illiterate (6 out of 10 can read). And among the educated only 14% can read Arabic the language the Quran was written in. So a disproportionate number of Muslims almost the majority are running around clueless and unaware of what their God said in the Quran. That is why Muslims are at odds with the rest of the world who are very well versed in their scriptures and religiously literate after having undergone religious reformations over time.

 

[RAYYAN]

What no Muslim is able to answer is why did God give the Muslims the Quran 600 years after he had already spoken to the Jews,Christians and finally the Gentiles?

The Quran was given so late to the Muslims that the majority of Muslims have not read it. Firstly because 800 million Muslims are illiterate (6 out of 10 can read). And among the educated only 14% can read Arabic the language the Quran was written in. So a disproportionate number of Muslims almost the majority are running around clueless and unaware of what their God said in the Quran. That is why Muslims are at odds with the rest of the world who are very well versed in their scriptures and religiously literate after having undergone religious reformations over time.

I am sorry, but this is not right again
Muslims memorize the Quran even if they don't read, so your argument that they don't know what is in the Quran is just a stupid one

 

[gnostic]

You are simply wrong.

Now you are directly replying to me.

I thought that might get your attention.

You replied to post 952, but you don't reply to my posts - on 942, but I had posted twice before, but originally in post 817. Three times, I had never got one reply from you in regarding to the plagiarism in Qur'an 5:32.

Now that I have your attention, can you respond to the below 2 quotes:

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

This is a copy of the original idea, found in the Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1:

"As Hillel the Elder had stated, whosoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whosoever that saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

I don't know exactly when Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin was originally written, but it was definitely completed before 500 CE. Sanhedrin is part of the Gemara in the Jerusalem Talmud (the other other Talmud is known as the Babylonian Talmud.

The Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1 is a quote from a Jewish sage of the 1st century BCE, named Hillel the Elder.

So the Talmud is saying that Hillel the elder was the one who originally wrote about killing one soul is like killing a whole of mankind, while saving one soul is like saving all of mankind (I am paraphrasing what they are both saying).

So the Qur'an (5:32) had copied from older sources, without citing where it come from, only serve to demonstrate the Qur'an is not written by divine source, as all Muslims believe, and that Muhammad is a cheat.

Muhammad must have heard of Hillel's version, and used it in his own version...or one of his followers who was familiarize with the Talmud must have interpolated Sanhedrin 4:1 to Qur'an 5:32.

Will you respond to this, or will you again evade for the 4th time on this subject?
​

 

[Harikrish]

I am sorry, but this is not right again
Muslims memorize the Quran even if they don't read, so your argument that they don't know what is in the Quran is just a stupid one

But memorizing the verses in the Quran is not the same as understanding what those verses mean especially when the Quran is written in Arabic which less that 14 % of the Muslim population speak or read.

You don't seen to grasp how serious illiteracy is among the Muslim population. Islam is a very primitive religion, but we are in the 21st Century and 800 million illiterate Muslims is already mind boggling. But the fact even more Muslims cannot read the Quran and can only parrot/memorize the verses is gross negligence.

 

[RAYYAN]

But memorizing the verses in the Quran is not the same as understanding what those verses mean especially when the Quran is written in Arabic which less that 14 % of the Muslim population speak or read.

You don't seen to grasp how serious illiteracy is among the Muslim population. Islam is a very primitive religion, but we are in the 21st Century and 800 million illiterate Muslims is already mind boggling. But the fact even more Muslims cannot read the Quran and can only parrot/memorize the verses is gross negligence.

That is a good point, but before I even start to discus this, I would like to see your source of 14% and 800 million who are illiterate please

 

[paarsurrey]

But memorizing the verses in the Quran is not the same as understanding what those verses mean especially when the Quran is written in Arabic which less that 14 % of the Muslim population speak or read.

You don't seen to grasp how serious illiteracy is among the Muslim population. Islam is a very primitive religion, but we are in the 21st Century and 800 million illiterate Muslims is already mind boggling. But the fact even more Muslims cannot read the Quran and can only parrot/memorize the verses is gross negligence.

The meaning could be understood fairly from the context of the verses even from the translations, only for a very deep study the etymology of the Arabic text is needed. The importance of the original text in Arabic however cannot be overemphasized.

There is no harm in improving literacy.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Now you are directly replying to me.

I thought that might get your attention.

You replied to post 952, but you don't reply to my posts - on 942, but I had posted twice before, but originally in post 817. Three times, I had never got one reply from you in regarding to the plagiarism in Qur'an 5:32.

Now that I have your attention, can you respond to the below 2 quotes:

This is a copy of the original idea, found in the Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1:


I don't know exactly when Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin was originally written, but it was definitely completed before 500 CE. Sanhedrin is part of the Gemara in the Jerusalem Talmud (the other other Talmud is known as the Babylonian Talmud.

The Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1 is a quote from a Jewish sage of the 1st century BCE, named Hillel the Elder.

So the Talmud is saying that Hillel the elder was the one who originally wrote about killing one soul is like killing a whole of mankind, while saving one soul is like saving all of mankind (I am paraphrasing what they are both saying).

So the Qur'an (5:32) had copied from older sources, without citing where it come from, only serve to demonstrate the Qur'an is not written by divine source, as all Muslims believe, and that Muhammad is a cheat.

Muhammad must have heard of Hillel's version, and used it in his own version...or one of his followers who was familiarize with the Talmud must have interpolated Sanhedrin 4:1 to Qur'an 5:32.

Will you respond to this, or will you again evade for the 4th time on this subject?
​

Jewish scripture Torah is corrupted and Talmud even more than the Torah. Muhammad never read them. He got everything from the original source that is from G-d by revelation as did Moses or Noah.

Regards

 

[gnostic]

Jewish scripture Torah is corrupted and Talmud even more than the Torah.

Good grief, man!

You realize that mean the Qur'an is more corrupted than Torah and Talmud put together.

My questions were not on the corruptions of the Torah, Talmud or the Qur'an.

Do you have ADD (attention deficit disorder)?

Because you can't seem to comprehend and focus on what I had written.

Did you not see the 2 QUOTES I had supplied in my post? Since my last post, I have given to you these same quotes, 4 bl@@dy times already!

You are not paying attention to what I had written.

You started this thread yourself, about the Qur'an not being a copy of any scripture, and of any religious literature. I have given you two quotes, repeatedly, and you have ignored them, skipped them or evaded them.

Focus on the QUOTES, paarsurrey. READ THEM! Read Qur'an 5:32 and Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1.

Can you do that?

I will give to you one more time, so please read the below quotes:

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

"As Hillel the Elder had stated, whosoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whosoever that saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

Do you not see the similarities in the RED and BLUE texts? I had even made them extra large, so you can't miss them. The question to my my post that I want answer is:

Did the Qur'an's not copy from the Talmud passage about killing/saving soul?
​

Clearly, The Qur'an verse (5:32), had stolen words conveyed originally by what Hillel the Elder had said, as written in the Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1.

The quotes I have given above, is the Qur'an plagiarizing Hillel the Elder's and the Talmud. Do you understand now?

If you don't read the quotes that I have given, now 5 times, I will be quite crossed with you.

 

[Harikrish]

The meaning could be understood fairly from the context of the verses even from the translations, only for a very deep study the etymology of the Arabic text is needed. The importance of the original text in Arabic however cannot be overemphasized.

There is no harm in improving literacy.

Regards

You just admitted, when the language of the Quran is Arabic and the majority of Muslims neither know or read Arabic. Their understanding of the Quran is very shallow and limited.

But the bigger issue is the failure of the religion to inspire learning and education among its believers. Islam produces mindless zombies who are forced to memorize verses in Arabic that they do not understand and those who cannot memorize are left with blank minds.

If you look at the news you will find most Muslims men and women are covering their faces for fear of being recognized as another terrorist or illiterate.

 

[RAYYAN]

You just admitted, when the language of the Quran is Arabic and the majority of Muslims neither know or read Arabic. Their understanding of the Quran is very shallow and limited.

But the bigger issue is the failure of the religion to inspire learning and education among its believers. Islam produces mindless zombies who are forced to memorize verses in Arabic that they do not understand and those who cannot memorize are left with blank minds.

If you look at the news you will find most Muslims men and women are covering their faces for fear of being recognized as another terrorist or illiterate.

You should not post anything until you show the sources I asked you to show. you are telling lies

 

[Harikrish]

Jewish scripture Torah is corrupted and Talmud even more than the Torah. Muhammad never read them. He got everything from the original source that is from G-d by revelation as did Moses or Noah.

Regards

If God also spoke to all the prophets in the Torah and bible, then how can the two be corrupted.

The Quran got a lot of its facts wrong about the Torah and Bible because the prophet Mohammad was illiterate and as a small boy only heard the ancient stories but never could verify it. What is recorded in the Quran is what the prophet recited from memory which is the least reliable source because memory is unreliable.

 

[paarsurrey]

If God also spoke to all the prophets in the Torah and bible, then how can the two be corrupted.

The Quran got a lot of its facts wrong about the Torah and Bible because the prophet Mohammad was illiterate and as a small boy only heard the ancient stories but never could verify it. What is recorded in the Quran is what the prophet recited from memory which is the least reliable source because memory is unreliable.

G-d talked to the Prophets like Adam,Noah and Moses; that Revelation has not been reported correctly in Torah. The narrators/scribes/clergy changed that revelation:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma'idah

[5:42]O Messenger! let not those grieve thee who hastily fall into disbelief — those who say with their mouths, ‘We believe,’ but their hearts believe not. And among the Jewstooare those who would fondly listen toanylie — who listen forconveying it toanother people who have not come to thee. They pervert words after their being put in theirrightplaces, and say, ‘If you are given this, then accept it, but if you are not given this, then beware!’ And as for him whom Allah desires to try, thou shalt not avail him aught against Allah. These are they whose hearts Allah has not been pleased to purify; they shall have disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a severe punishment.
[5:43]They are habitual listeners to falsehood, devourers of things forbidden. If, then, they come to theefor judgment, judge between them or turn aside from them. And if thou turn aside from them, they cannot harm thee at all. And if thou judge, judge between them with justice. Surely, Allah loves those who are just.
[5:44]And how will they make theetheirjudge when they have with them the Torah, wherein is Allah’s judgment? Yet, in spite of that they turn their backs; and certainly they will not believe.
[5:45]Surely, We sent down the Torah wherein was guidance and light. By it did the Prophets, who were obedientto Us, judge for the Jews, as did the godly people and those learnedin the Law; for they were required to preserve the Book of Allah, andbecausethey were guardians over it. Therefore fear not men but fear Me; and barter not My Signs for a paltry price. And whoso judges not by that which Allah has sent down, these it is who are the disbelievers.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Regards

 

[gnostic]

Read and compare the 2 quoted passages below, paarsurrey, and answer the question:

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

"As Hillel the Elder had stated, whosoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whosoever that saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

Did the Qur'an's not copy from the Talmud passage about killing/saving soul?
​

ps. Will any Muslim other than paarsurrey, honestly answer the above question regarding these two passages that Qur'an had plagiarised the Talmud passage?

 

[paarsurrey]

Read and compare the 2 quoted passages below, paarsurrey, and answer the question:

Did the Qur'an's not copy from the Talmud passage about killing/saving soul?
ps. Will any Muslim other than paarsurrey, honestly answer the above question regarding these two passages that Qur'an had plagiarised the Talmud passage?​

​

No, emphatically no.
Quran is authored by G-d. G-d is the original source for Revelation to Buddha, Krishna,Zoroaster, Moses, Socrates Jesus, and Muhammad.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 74: Al-Muddaththir [3]

[74:21]Ruin seize him again! how he calculated!
[74:22]Then he looked,
[74:23]Then he frowned and scowled,
[74:24]Then he turned away and was disdainful,
[74:25]And said, ‘This is nothing but magic handed down;
[74:26]‘This is nothing but the word of man.’
[74:27]Soon shall I cast him into the fire of Hell.
[74:28]And what makes thee know what Hell-fire is?
[74:29]It spares not and it leaves naught.
[74:30]It scorches the face.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.

Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

Regards

 

[Renji]

Your comments please

Regards

Sure, I can see a lot of difference from the quran and the bible, and much of similarities with ancient beliefs deemed as heresy (as well as from the apocryphal 'gospels') by early christians. No offense intended, just my opinion.

 

[gnostic]

No, emphatically no.
Quran is authored by G-d. G-d is the original source for Revelation to Buddha, Krishna,Zoroaster, Moses, Socrates Jesus, and Muhammad.

Saying God is the author of the Qur'an, is not valid or logical argument. It just based on blind faith.
You are not thinking logically, because you're allowing your faith cloud your judgement.

Something written later (like the Qur'an), cannot be considered the original idea. Verse 5:32 is a copy of Hillel, not the other way around. And you cannot and have not refuted that Qur'an 5:32 isn't a copy. Putting God as the author is a baseless claim of an infant.

Beside, I wasn't asking you about the whole Qur'an. I just wanted you to compare one verse in the Qur'an - verse 5:32 - against a specific passage in the Jerusalem Talmud...and clearly the Qur'an had copied a non-revealed source - a 1st century BCE Jewish sage, named Hillel the Elder.

We know that while he was orphan, Muhammad did travel to Christian Syria with his uncle, so we know that he more than likely had a lot of exposure to Christian teaching. And there were Jews living everywhere after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, including in Syria and the Arabian peninsula.

Muhammad wasn't living in total isolation from the outside world, where he had no exposure to Christian or Jewish teachings. And you don't need to read in order to learn about another religion, unless you think he is deaf or retarded.

Plus, Hillel the Elder died about 600 years before Muhammad receive his first visitation, and the Jerusalem Talmud (particularly the Gemera) was completed 200 years before Muhammad.

According to the Talmud (Gemara- Sanhedrin 4:1), Hillel was the one who wrote the original "whoever kill a soul...", not this God of yours.

The passage in Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1 was written earlier than Muhammad's first SUPPOSED revelation. The Talmud recorded what Hillel had written. How can you not see that Muhammad or any of his followers copying Hillel's words?

 

[paarsurrey]

Saying God is the author of the Qur'an, is not valid or logical argument. It just based on blind faith.
You are not thinking logically, because you're allowing your faith cloud your judgement.

Something written later (like the Qur'an), cannot be considered the original idea. Verse 5:32 is a copy of Hillel, not the other way around. And you cannot and have not refuted that Qur'an 5:32 isn't a copy. Putting God as the author is a baseless claim of an infant.

Beside, I wasn't asking you about the whole Qur'an. I just wanted you to compare one verse in the Qur'an - verse 5:32 - against a specific passage in the Jerusalem Talmud...and clearly the Qur'an had copied a non-revealed source - a 1st century BCE Jewish sage, named Hillel the Elder.

We know that while he was orphan, Muhammad did travel to Christian Syria with his uncle, so we know that he more than likely had a lot of exposure to Christian teaching. And there were Jews living everywhere after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, including in Syria and the Arabian peninsula.

Muhammad wasn't living in total isolation from the outside world, where he had no exposure to Christian or Jewish teachings. And you don't need to read in order to learn about another religion, unless you think he is deaf or retarded.

Plus, Hillel the Elder died about 600 years before Muhammad receive his first visitation, and the Jerusalem Talmud (particularly the Gemera) was completed 200 years before Muhammad.

According to the Talmud (Gemara- Sanhedrin 4:1), Hillel was the one who wrote the original "whoever kill a soul...", not this God of yours.

The passage in Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1 was written earlier than Muhammad's first SUPPOSED revelation. The Talmud recorded what Hillel had written. How can you not see that Muhammad or any of his followers copying Hillel's words?

Quote :[so we know that he more than likely had a lot of exposure to Christian teaching] unquote
Please give details of Muhammad's journey as you pose to be knowing them. Please don't get into guess-work.

Regards

 

[Tali018]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

......

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.

Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

Regards

Its extremely odd that you are looking for copies to be verbatim as they were written in the Torah. You list certain sections that you know have no direct correlations to the Torah. You've had nearly a decade to practice this question and prepare for answers to it as you jump from forum to forum. Thus setting up numerous posters to attempt the challenge and fall into the trap you set. So I will post a snipit and a link and move on:

“God called out to him from the bush, ‘Moses, Moses!’ And he said, ‘Here I am.’ … [God] said further, ‘I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’.” (Exodus 3: 4-6)

“We gave Moses the Book, completing Our favour to those who would do right, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercy.” (Qur'an 6: 154-155)

Qur'an Bible Torah Comparison | Change the Story

 

[gnostic]

Please give details of Muhammad's journey as you pose to be
knowing them. Please don't get into guess-work.

Again, you are changing the subject..or still avoiding it.

I presented to you two passages (6 bl@@dy times), one from the Qur'an 5:32 and the other from a Talmud quote of Hillel the Elder.

They look precisely the same to me, but the Talmud (Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin 4:1) was completed 200 or more years before .

And the only argument you had presented was that God wrote the Qur'an, which is really not argument at all, but a proclamation of your illogical and irrelevant personal belief.

No, emphatically no.
Quran is authored by G-d. G-d is the original source for Revelation to Buddha, Krishna,Zoroaster, Moses, Socrates Jesus, and Muhammad.

This quote above, you didn't refute my claim that this verse (5:32) from Qur'an is a plagiarism to Hillel's words. And Hillel died 600 years before Muhammad's first SUPPOSED visitation/revelation. Hillel the Elder was a wise Jewish leader and sage, not a prophet, and yet the Qur'an copy his words without citing Hillel being the source of "whoever kill a innocent..."

So I suggest you answer my question before I will answer any more question from you.

Why isn't Qur'an 5:32 a plagiarism to Hillel/Talmud?