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Is Desantis just trying to relive the past?

Wirey

Fartist
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL
Like honor not he’s not an idiot.

He is sending small groups into the heart of areas where The people who for decades have refused to actually address the bad system live.

On the one hand I dislike using people like this. On the other hand those in power to fix the problem refuse and far far worse is being done to people as a result. Given that the majority of illegal immigrants are from the south and central America’s it is likely that the enforcement teams are better able to find person from these areas vs the guy from Ireland who overstayed his visa.

So while it may be a political stunt it does have have evidence of race as a motivating factor.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL

They don't mind the Russian illegals because they vote GOP.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL
I think playing a race card / party card is wrong. With such a strong hispanic population, obviously your position about race IMV is wrong.

But, yes, immigration policy needs overhauled and our borders need to be hardened.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL
The race card is just plain old and overused imo.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The great majority of Ukrainian refugees are being received in Western Europe or in the Slavo-Catholic countries.
Also because there are so many welfare state programs for them, in the EU.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?
When winning is all that matters, grandstanding is the order of the day. In politics, if you don't win, you're irrelevant. So winning is all that matters, and pandering and grandstanding is how you get selfish citizens to vote for you.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants.

This opinion is a flawed opinion that does not align with reality, and likely comes from a place of ignorance and inexperience.

Those who have lived along America’s southern border for an extended time, whose communities are affected by illegal immigration, who know and understand the situation through direct experience rather than from what regurgitated propaganda they hear on the news… tend to have a far more realistic grasp on the reality of the situation.
 

AlexanderG

Active Member
Like honor not he’s not an idiot.

He is sending small groups into the heart of areas where The people who for decades have refused to actually address the bad system live.

On the one hand I dislike using people like this. On the other hand those in power to fix the problem refuse and far far worse is being done to people as a result. Given that the majority of illegal immigrants are from the south and central America’s it is likely that the enforcement teams are better able to find person from these areas vs the guy from Ireland who overstayed his visa.

So while it may be a political stunt it does have have evidence of race as a motivating factor.

Do you understand that liberals have been trying to solve the immigration issue for decades, and it keeps getting blocked in the senate? Their plans would also include giving states the resources they need to manage new immigrants.

The GOP platform appears to be based only on grievance now, with nothing left but a wish to harm, offend, or harass all they people they feel have wronged them. I've tried to rationalize the ever-shifting array of opposite principles that conservatives state from issue to issue, but the only unifying principle I can find is to hurt people they don't like, and accrue power for themselves at the expense of others. (And this typically includes non-whites immigrants or citizens.)

I encourage you to watch this video, as one of many, many examples of shifting stated principles to disguise their one principle of zero-sum power:
 

Wirey

Fartist
This opinion is a flawed opinion that does not align with reality, and likely comes from a place of ignorance and inexperience.

Those who have lived along America’s southern border for an extended time, whose communities are affected by illegal immigration, who know and understand the situation through direct experience rather than from what regurgitated propaganda they hear on the news… tend to have a far more realistic grasp on the reality of the situation.

So, educate me. How are white illegal immigrants not being swept up?
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
Do you understand that liberals have been trying to solve the immigration issue for decades, and it keeps getting blocked in the senate? Their plans would also include giving states the resources they need to manage new immigrants.

The GOP platform appears to be based only on grievance now, with nothing left but a wish to harm, offend, or harass all they people they feel have wronged them. I've tried to rationalize the ever-shifting array of opposite principles that conservatives state from issue to issue, but the only unifying principle I can find is to hurt people they don't like, and accrue power for themselves at the expense of others.

I encourage you to watch this video, as one of many, many examples of shifting stated principles to disguise their one principle of zero-sum power:

LOL the solutions they keep offering are not a fix. Every version I have seen include an increase in unlawful spending. If they really wanted a fix we would have it. But their version of working together is all too often a requirement to expand government just slower than they wish for.

There are some contradictions in red states but it’s nothing like what you are clamming.

Conservatism is pretty straight forward. If people are able to do it, the government should not.
If the Constitution says it’s not the feds job the feds must stay out. (yes sadly some will sell out anything to make buck, but that’s a fail to clean house not of the core concepts).

Taxes should be minimal and choices maximized unless it harms another.

To me those notions are very consistent and straight forward.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL
Well migrants can't all be housed in border states, so it is common for them to be sent to shelters elsewhere in the USA. Migrants filing for asylum need an address in the USA so they can argue their court cases. The migrants need to be spread all over the USA for the sake of efficiency, and even at that the immigration courts have packed dockets, with court dates 6 or more months away. Migrants are settled in lpaces close to a court so they can argue their cases.

What DeSantis did was likely illegal. He sent people to an island that had no facilities. He didn't notify the local authorities. And he deceived the migrants about where they were going. Some were given false addresses, and addreses far from where their court hearings are today. So there was no way for these people to make it to court, thus their petitions would automatically be denied, and they face deportation. Immigration lawyers have come forward to represent the migrants, and examining possible crimes by DeSantis against these people. I'm sure given the high media coverage of these events the courts will give the migrants who are unable to make their court appearances a continuance.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Explain how I'm overusing it. Is 1-20 of the bussed immigrants white, or are they getting a pass?
No. They are being bussed to all the big mouth states that brag they can take them in as tolerable welcoming sanctuary states.

Texas in particular is essentially saying they have an uncontrollable crises that the Democrats continually poo poo and accuse people of being racist and bigots when it's actually over illegal entry .

Democrats brag they are the problem solvers, so the problem goes to those who brag on how well prepared and capable they are.

Democrats should be thanking the Republicans for this efficient wonderful service they are doing so as you send these poor folks into the best hands in the nation.

You don't want them staying with the racists now do you,,?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
We're never going to "solve the immigration problem" in the U.S. because the wealthy elites that control the government don't want it solved. They want the constant influx of cheap labor that they don't have to provide health care or safe working conditions for. Even if they don't use those laborers, themselves, just having them available keeps everyone else's wages down, and keeps the labor unions ineffective. Neither the republicans nor the democrats in power are ever going to stop illegal and/or unregulated immigration because the corporate sponsors that pay for their campaigns and their perks and the endless bribery they receive while in office don't want them to fix it.

I can't help but laugh at republican voters who vote for republican candidates because they shout their hatred of illegal immigrants from the rooftops, and then when those same politicians get in office they do everything in their power to make sure it's never effectively stopped. They throw billions of dollars to their cronies in the construction industry to build walls with gigantic gaps in them and then they blame the failure on the democrats. Meanwhile the democrats just sit on their hands and do nothing while blaming everything on the republicans.

But the truth is that none of them have any intention of fixing anything regarding illegal immigration because it's exactly as the people who really run the country want it.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems to me that this desire to send illegal immigrants to the north is a thinly veiled attempt to get rid of off-white immigrants. There absolutely must be illegal immigrants in Florida/Texas/Arizona who are fleeing unrest in the Ukraine, or the economic upheavals in Eastern Europe, and yet every single busses-out person I have seen has been of Hispanic descent. Is this just a new set of Reverse Freedom Rides? Just a racist ploy thinly disguised as a political move?

Please note that I have said, repeatedly, that the US immigration policies are nuts, and your borders need to be hardened. But once you put a desperate family on a bus to God knows where so you can suck up some redneck votes, aren't you just using them to grandstand?

Reverse Freedom Rides - Wikipedia.

Edited to add the chart below, which shows 5% (1 in 20) illegals in Florida are European. So, 1 in 20 people on those busses should be white if this is truly about illegal immigration.

Profile of the Unauthorized Population - FL

Well, simply due to geography, proximity, and the disparities in wealth between the U.S. and our southern neighbors, it stands to reason that the vast majority of people coming in are from Latin America. Of course, there are immigrants from other places, too, but if we're looking solely at stats and numbers, then yes, most of them will be Hispanic.

Also, many illegal immigrants are people who entered legally with proper documentation, but in many cases, people overstay their visas, at which point they officially become "illegal."

Though it's not simply a matter of illegal immigration, but also illegal entry into the United States and border security, whether it's people crossing land borders or rowing up to the beaches of Florida.

I wouldn't say it's all that equivalent to the reverse freedom rides, although far more southern blacks migrated north on their own volition.

Likewise, there have been illegal immigrants who, once they enter the U.S., may go to other parts of the country to find work, as this map (data from 2016) would indicate:

undocimmigmap2016.jpg



U.S. unauthorized immigrant population estimates by state, 2016 | Pew Research Center

But yes, overall, I agree that this is just DeSantis grandstanding.

There are some similarities in both situations in that it points up the issues of regionalism and classism in America. One might hear tropes about "Coastals," who are mostly upper class liberals, and "Middle America," who tend to be middle class conservatives. Of course, in the east, "Coastal" refers only to the coast north the Chesapeake Bay.

Such tropes convey the image of a white, upper class haughty, hubristic, sanctimonious liberal who grew up in insular, lily-white, luxurious surroundings, and with little to no actual real-world experience or interactions with people they see as beneath them. This view appears to be echoed by DeSantis' comments that "it's easy for them" to declare themselves a 'sanctuary' when they're living on an island populated mostly by wealthy white liberals. They're seen as far removed from the problem, out of touch, and don't really understand it except on an abstract level. (Please note that I'm talking about images and perceptions, not how people might actually be.)

Having said that, I still think DeSantis is wrong and a bit of a miscreant for doing this. I understand the point he's trying to make, but this political stunt is backfiring on him. But the concept he's addressing here is not exactly new, at least in terms of regional perceptions.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
So, educate me. How are white illegal immigrants not being swept up?

It is for the same reason Mexicans are not the ones being swept up for illegally entering China.

America shares its southern border with Mexico, not Norway.
 

Wirey

Fartist
It is for the same reason Mexicans are not the ones being swept up for illegally entering China.

America shares its southern border with Mexico, not Norway.

But there are 37,000 illegal immigrants from Europe/Canada in Florida alone. Zero of them get swept up. If it's immigration based, 5% of the bus occupants should be European/Canadian. They're not. Ergo, the defining characteristic is race. So this is race based, not immigration based.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
LOL the solutions they keep offering are not a fix. Every version I have seen include an increase in unlawful spending. If they really wanted a fix we would have it. But their version of working together is all too often a requirement to expand government just slower than they wish for.
What solution do republicans offer?

What solution do you think will work?
 
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