I have a feeling that the afterlife doesn't exist

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is why I trust and believe the Bible and not experiences that say something in contradiction of its teachings.

That's nice for you, but I don't worship books.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's nice for you, but I don't worship books.

Do you hear voices? inside your head, I mean...as if someone is talking to you...are you perhaps a medium who contacts the living dead or dead living, however you might define it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you hear voices?

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[YoursTrue]

What does that have to do with anything?

I think it has a lot to do with your concepts. No one should worship the Bible, but I'm wondering about what you give credence to or believe in. It is yourself? Others? Again -- some people speak to the dead (they think they do anyway). So I'm wondering about these things with you.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I like to treat it as both!

If I'm coming back here, I would like there to be something to return to.

I'd like there to be something for the next generation, so our goals probably align, even if I don't think I'll be there.

I work with lots of less optimistic people who are only doing good because of that carrot on a stick, who'd not bother if they didn't think they were getting some reward before everything burns. And that's a shame, to me. That's the sort of missing the point of this life while longing for the next I want to avoid with afterlife beliefs.

Present for present's sake. Not for a future I couldn't possibly know and shouldn't let affect my behavior anyway.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'd like there to be something for the next generation, so our goals probably align, even if I don't think I'll be there.

I work with lots of less optimistic people who are only doing good because of that carrot on a stick, who'd not bother if they didn't think they were getting some reward before everything burns. And that's a shame, to me. That's the sort of missing the point of this life while longing for the next I want to avoid with afterlife beliefs.

Present for present's sake. Not for a future I couldn't possibly know and shouldn't let affect my behavior anyway.

Gotta say that's an interesting thought. When someone opens the door for me because I have difficulty walking, I don't expect to necessarily see that person again, but I think how nice that person is and it makes me feel good. Similarly, when I go into an establishment and the person smiles at me, that makes me feel good, too. But you remind me to call a friend to say hello who does good things when I ask her to help me. I don't expect or want a person who opens a door for me out of kindness to ask if they can come home with me and help me. But it sure makes life a bit nicer when people are kind to one another, doesn't it?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think it has a lot to do with your concepts. No one should worship the Bible, but I'm wondering about what you give credence to or believe in. It is yourself? Others? Again -- some people speak to the dead (they think they do anyway). So I'm wondering about these things with you.

What do I believe in or give credence to? Hmm. Well, a lot of things, including and beyond what you have mentioned. But as for my religious or spiritual beliefs, it's hard to put a label on it as I've transversed various paths but I'm a polytheist, animist and a pantheist at the end of the day. A Pagan (specifically Germanic Heathenry), as well a student of the Left-Hand Path as I understand it. I've had a complicated spiritual journey. If this were millennia ago, I'd just be a shaman in a cave somewhere. I believe in myself, the Gods, the beloved Ancestors, the Cosmos, Nature and Life.

But, no. I'm not a "medium" or do rituals or use devices to bother spirits or whatever. I'm just a very sensitive person and don't really even talk about these things with others.

 

[Spice]

Do you know what the word 'soul' is translated from?

In Hebrew - nphsh
In Greek - psychen
In Arabic - ruh
In Latin, Greek, and Arabic, soul is related to the notion of moving air. . .invisible breath. I believe the soul escapes at death with the last exhale of breath, usually leaving the body with an opened mouth, or parted lips.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I've had my experiences that convince me that we go on. But beliefs don't really matter, moreso keeping an open mind. We're all going to get there in the end.

I've had experiences as well that have convinced me without a doubt. Having said that, I'm very glad to see that experiences like mine are becoming more acceptable and welcome in our society. Granted, it wasn't like this while I was growing up, but during the last twenty-four years, an increasing number of people have accepted the paranormal and have openly shared their own personal encounters with this phenomenon (see some statistics here). I've had these experiences for many years and felt lonely because of them, so I am grateful for this shift. I'm glad the paranormal is more widely accepted now.

 

[Madsaac]

The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of the universe has to increase. This is well established consensus science. Explaining the nature of entropy can get esoteric, but in the lab, entropy can be measured with accuracy. It is real.

An entropy increase will need to absorb energy. Going from lower to higher entropy adsorbs energy. We can reverse entropy; lower entropy, to get the energy back. However, since the 2nd law says that the entropy of the universe has to increase, this means the universe is net bleeding energy into increasing entropy.

In other words, energy is disappearing from the material universe, tied up into increasing entropy; red shift. Red shifting energy is losing energy, forever. The energy is going sort of going to another dimension, in a loose sense. If we apply energy conservation, where energy cannot be created or destroyed, this energy loss due to the second law is conserved, but in a way that is net off limits to the material universe, due to its ever increasing sense. This lost, but conserved energy is a good place for the so-called spiritual realms.

In engineering, entropy is a state variable, meaning any given state of matter, has a fixed value of entropy. In that sense, entropy is like the finger print or identity of any state matter. The entropy of water at room temperature is 188.8 Joules/(mole K) no matter who measures it. The energy equivalent is conserved in the other dimension like a state blueprint. Life and the brain continuously generate entropy increase, which means our personal history; biology and consciousness sort of has a conserved energy data storage due to the 2nd law; all our states.

Science, via the extrapolated logic of the 2nd law of entropy and energy conservation does provide for the idea of structured quanta of energy conservation, that is detached from the material universe, albeit, it came from the material universe. Whether this is the spiritual realm is not yet subject of any direct science proof, since this new concept, although logical, is still part of future science.

Often when soft science people investigate ghosts, a common observation is a cold feeling in a room when ghosts appear. An increase in entropy will absorb energy and will make the area colder. Since entropy is reversible, on a small scale, but still the overall entropy has to net increase again, any connection to the other realm, where entropic energy has collected and conserved, theoretically should feel warm then colder to reflect coming to the material side and back. This does not require any new energy, but simply changes at the quantum level.

Sounds good but a bit beyond me.

However, what about black holes? People say we will end up as atoms and we do but if those atoms get sucked into a black hole, do they exist anymore? I assume the answer is, we don't don't.

So I think black holes could be the X factor if you will, something we may never understand.

In the distant future will some type of black hole suck in our entire universe and everything in it, including ourselves?

 

[YoursTrue]

What do I believe in or give credence to? Hmm. Well, a lot of things, including and beyond what you have mentioned. But as for my religious or spiritual beliefs, it's hard to put a label on it as I've transversed various paths but I'm a polytheist, animist and a pantheist at the end of the day. A Pagan (specifically Germanic Heathenry), as well a student of the Left-Hand Path as I understand it. I've had a complicated spiritual journey. If this were millennia ago, I'd just be a shaman in a cave somewhere. I believe in myself, the Gods, the beloved Ancestors, the Cosmos, Nature and Life.

But, no. I'm not a "medium" or do rituals or use devices to bother spirits or whatever. I'm just a very sensitive person and don't really even talk about these things with others.

thank you for your response.

 

[YoursTrue]

In Hebrew - nphsh
In Greek - psychen
In Arabic - ruh
In Latin, Greek, and Arabic, soul is related to the notion of moving air. . .invisible breath. I believe the soul escapes at death with the last exhale of breath, usually leaving the body with an opened mouth, or parted lips.

I've heard some people leave a window open. From what I understand body, soul, animal and life are very often intertwined. But you have a good evening.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

thank you for your response.

You're welcome.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Spice - Here are 2 translations of Leviticus 21:11 that speak of the dead:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he shall not enter upon any soul of the dead and he shall not be polluted with his father or with his mother;

Brenton Septuagint Translation
neither shall he go in to any dead body, neither shall he defile himself for his father or his mother.

Now the thing I'm trying to bring out is that the word there translated as soul or body (dead) is the Hebrew nephesh, as you mentioned.
body נַפְשֹׁ֥ת (nap̄·šōṯ)
Noun - feminine plural construct
Strong's 5315: A soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

Notice Strong's explanation of nephesh -- soul, living being, life, person, etc.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you hear voices? inside your head, I mean...as if someone is talking to you...are you perhaps a medium who contacts the living dead or dead living, however you might define it.

All that @Saint Frankenstein said was "That's nice for you, but I don't worship books."

Why would that make you think that he hears voices inside his head, or that he is a medium who contacts the dead?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is why I trust and believe the Bible and not experiences that say something in contradiction of its teachings.

The Bible does not teach anything. The Bible is a book that needs to be interpreted and understood, in order to be of any use.
Unfortunately, the Bible is the most misunderstood book that has ever existed throughout all of history.

The main people who misunderstand the Bible are Christians, who cannot even agree among themselves what it means, thus we have all the different doctrines that were derived from the Bible. Some Christians believe that Jesus is God, some don't. Some Christians believe that we go to heaven when we die, some believe we are resurrected to live on earth. The list of differing beliefs goes on.

 

[Spice]

@Spice - Here are 2 translations of Leviticus 21:11 that speak of the dead:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he shall not enter upon any soul of the dead and he shall not be polluted with his father or with his mother;

Brenton Septuagint Translation
neither shall he go in to any dead body, neither shall he defile himself for his father or his mother.

Now the thing I'm trying to bring out is that the word there translated as soul or body (dead) is the Hebrew nephesh, as you mentioned.
body נַפְשֹׁ֥ת (nap̄·šōṯ)
Noun - feminine plural construct
Strong's 5315: A soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

Notice Strong's explanation of nephesh -- soul, living being, life, person, etc.

I don't disagree with that, as the soul lives forever, not duplicated, not of the world, but of God. The soul is the infinite speck of who we are. We are not this physical body. We are not this human mind. We are not this environmentally made ego. We are a speck of God, His breath (Gen. 2:7), if you will, and when the body/mind/ego lets it go, it returns to God (Ecc 12:7).

Then, let's use this analogy: Then the Father looks over our report card, determines the curriculum needed for our next grade, and sends us back to school in our new uniform, with our new textbooks, in our new book bag for more lessons by teacher Lucifer (Job 1:7-12). This continues until we graduate as our big brother, Jesus did, and we get to go home fully grown "into heaven." (Rev 3:12)

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The Bible does not teach anything. The Bible is a book that needs to be interpreted and understood, in order to be of any use.
Unfortunately, the Bible is the most misunderstood book that has ever existed throughout all of history.

The main people who misunderstand the Bible are Christians, who cannot even agree among themselves what it means, thus we have all the different doctrines that were derived from the Bible. Some Christians believe that Jesus is God, some don't. Some Christians believe that we go to heaven when we die, some believe we are resurrected to live on earth. The list of differing beliefs goes on.

I was participating in a paranormal investigation with some friends not long ago, and a group of Christians asked if they could come along and observe. My friends and I let them come along with us under the condition that they didn't argue with us about whatever evidence we uncovered or attempt to preach and proselytize while they were with us. While my friends and I were preparing for our investigation, one of them asked these Christians what they believe happens to us (and others) after they die. They all stated that they believe Christians go directly to heaven after death, whereas non-Christians are immediately judged by God and sent to hell. Another friend (a former Christian) asked them what they thought of "soul sleep" and cited a few scriptures that imply it, as I did in my previous post (post #59). Well, they weren't too pleased to be asked this question, despite the fact that my friend politely asked them and was being respectful. They became rather defensive, so we all agreed to drop it. We didn't want any hostility affecting us and our investigation.

While we were investigating, we encountered some intense paranormal activity, which caused these Christians to panic and fall back on the usual "ghosts are demons" rhetoric, but my friends and I (all former Christians) were able to talk them through it. By the time we had finally finished our investigation, they had given up on their "ghosts are demons" indoctrinated belief. During our conversation, they shared how they are no longer sure what they believe about what happens to people after they die. They asked a lot of questions and closely listened to our answers. They also expressed to us that they are beginning to question the rest of their Christian beliefs, not just about the spirit world and what happens to people after they die. Before we parted ways, they asked us if they could participate in our next investigation, which we invited them to do. They seemed to be enthusiastic about it. Maybe they still are.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sounds good but a bit beyond me.

However, what about black holes? People say we will end up as atoms and we do but if those atoms get sucked into a black hole, do they exist anymore? I assume the answer is, we don't don't.

So I think black holes could be the X factor if you will, something we may never understand.

In the distant future will some type of black hole suck in our entire universe and everything in it, including ourselves?

Black holes show the power of the atom and even black holes dissipate under the laws of thermodynamics and entropy.

There's no question that atoms will always be around in the Greek vernacular of the term.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't disagree with that, as the soul lives forever, not duplicated, not of the world, but of God. The soul is the infinite speck of who we are. We are not this physical body. We are not this human mind. We are not this environmentally made ego. We are a speck of God, His breath (Gen. 2:7), if you will, and when the body/mind/ego lets it go, it returns to God (Ecc 12:7).

Then, let's use this analogy: Then the Father looks over our report card, determines the curriculum needed for our next grade, and sends us back to school in our new uniform, with our new textbooks, in our new book bag for more lessons by teacher Lucifer (Job 1:7-12). This continues until we graduate as our big brother, Jesus did, and we get to go home fully grown "into heaven." (Rev 3:12)

Since the soul (aka nephesh in Hebrew) can refer to the life of animal or human, the possibility of life (not one's soul) returns to God upon death. Not a soul that leaves the body and lives on somewhere. One reason is because there is a resurrection. That doesn't mean God makes a body and tucks a soul in it. It means that a person returns to life and God remembered that individual, just as Jesus pointed out that every hair on our head is numbered. Thus we are souls. Take care.