So? I still fail to understand what language a country speaks has to do with what religion its apparent national identity is. "God" and "create", as has been explained, are not exclusively Christian words.
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How Christian is America, honestly?
- Thread starter JustWondering
- Start date
So? I still fail to understand what language a country speaks has to do with what religion its apparent national identity is. "God" and "create", as has been explained, are not exclusively Christian words.
Tell the PTL and 700 club that. Ever watch those shows? They use the words God and Creator as Christian words to make America a "Christian" Nation. Same as "One Nation under God" is used by Christians to make America a "Christian Nation."
Skwim
Veteran Member
What a sad, ignorant comment.
fad
fad/
noun
noun: fad; plural noun: fads
an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.
fad/
noun
noun: fad; plural noun: fads
an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Those shows are hardly representative of the nation. If someone had never heard of PTL or the 700 Club, that person would have no clue until the Bible is mentioned or some other identifying term exclusively Christian.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You do know a lot of that science comes from religious people, right?
Well that's where I heard it and if they don't represent the nation too bad.
George Manuel Oliveira
Active Member
I don't watch TV, and I've never heard of either of those shows.
Seeing as I live in the US, and actually do know what shows are influential, I think I can say that they're inconsequential, at least in this neck of the woods.
Well that's where the idea of a Christian nation comes from.
JustWondering
Jerk
If someone calls themselves a Christian than they must mean they are followers of Christ's teachings. Christ preached against materialism and violence. That's not my opinion it is a fact, pick up a bible and you can read it for yourself. Would Christ give America a thumbs up for following his teachings if he were here today? If Christ were in charge of America would he have sent the seal team in to shoot bin laden in the face, and give billionaires more tax cuts so they could hoard more billions?
JerryL
Well-Known Member
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
...and here I was under the impression it was just another way to say one of two things, which I already listed in my above response. Neither one is dependent on the US, or English.
All of them? Since I think his teachings contradict each other, I think it would be impossible to follow all of them.
Christ wouldn't have been in charge of America, period. His kingdom is not of this world.
The Jesus I read in the Gospels realizes that he and his followers exist on the fringes of society and don't give any indication that he ever expects to have political power.
That aside, there's stuff in the Gospels for everyone. Yes, he says "blessed are the peacemakers", but he also tells his disciples to arm themselves with swords. Yes, he tells his followers to help feed the poor, but when the apostles rebuked the woman who dumped a bottle of perfume on Jesus, saying that it could've been sold to help the poor, Jesus brushes off what happened (and the poor themselves) by saying "the poor will always be with you."
The Bible is an echo chamber. Whatever viewpoint you have, you can find stuff in the Bible that supports it (as well as the opposite viewpoint). Nasty forms of Christianity have used this fact to their advantage as long as there's been Christianity.
roger1440
I do stuff
Christians spend there day of rest at the local mall. That's why there are so many couches and chairs there, LOL
Heim
Active Member
I'd like to nuance this position slightly.
While it can be said that nations without a state religion can be called secular nations, we do have to look the deeper mechanics. Important in this perspective is how the state relates to the different religions. I will take Belgium as an example here, because I am most familiar with its laws and regulations.
Belgium is de jure a secular nation, but de facto a Roman Catholic nation. While Belgium knows a separation of church and state, the state does 'recognize' certain religions. Gaining state recognition means that a religion is subsidized. Subsidization is provided for Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, and 'freethinkers'. For all groups, except for Roman Catholics, the subsidy is calculated on the basis of member count. For Roman Catholicism subsidy is calculated on the basis of population of each Belgian community. This gives the Roman Catholic Church an enormous advantage: the actual number of adherents to the Catholic faith is of no real importance, subsidy is guaranteed on the basis of population count.
So, I contend that the label of 'secular nation' can actually mask mechanisms that give some groups an advantage.
Nada
#
Matthew 7:20
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them
.Matthew 12:33
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
JustWondering
Jerk
Sad but true, however I think you have to WILLFULLY ignore a lot more of what Christ says in the new testament to justify doing self centered and harmful things than the other way around. Of course there are a lot of Christians that do not read the bible for themselves and simply follow someone else's interpretation and agenda.
That's a very good point, which didn't occur to me, since I'm not familiar with Belgium's customs.
Plus, on the other hand, many nations that can be called Christian, by the fact that it's a State Religion, tend to be far more secular in their political dealings (so I understand) than the US is.
The question of whether any country is a nation of X religion really isn't an easy one. ...honestly, I think the only one I can say with pretty good certainty is that Japan is a Shinto nation.
While the former as a general statement is fine, the latter is a statement of Jesus's that I disagree with. All trees bear good and bad fruit, depending on how healthy it and the environment around it is. A tree that bears mostly bad fruit one year can also be cultivated to produce mostly good fruit the next.
That said, exactly. The Christianity that was propagated by Rome, and the offshoots of it, often seem to run completely contrary to what Christ taught. It's what happens, I guess, when an ascetic-apocalyptic religion becomes popular.