Ethan Staubach
Member
Well to me, regarding this subject, it comes down to these questions in order:
1. Is the Abrahamic God real?
2. If so, does he have our best interests at heart?
3. Is the Bible valid?
4. Does the Bible speak out about homosexuality?
5. Are the interpretations by the person asserting the arguments based on what they read valid?
I would make the argument that you don't even need God's existence to justify why homosexuality is wrong via natural law. However, I will answer all your questions one by one. I also noticed that Skwim responded to me too, which I'll be getting to soon which may answer any questions you'd ask about this.
1: For this first part I first have to prove (or reason at least) God's existence. I'll do this by merely copying and posting Saint Thomas Aquinas' proofs of God (Aquinas: Five Ways to Prove that God exists -- The Arguments):
"The First Way: Argument from Motion
- Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
- Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
- Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
- Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
- Therefore nothing can move itself.
- Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
- The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
- Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
- We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
- Nothing exists prior to itself.
- Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.
- If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).
- Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
- If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
- That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).
- Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.
- Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.
- We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
- Assume that every being is a contingent being.
- For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
- Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
- Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
- Thereforee at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
- Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
- We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
- Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
- Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.
- There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
- Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
- The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
- Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.
- We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance
- Most natural things lack knowledge.
- But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.
- Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; this being we call God."
Second I have to express why the Abrahamic God and not another God is real. I believe the Abrahamic God is real because he has revealed his existence to us in history. We see this happen constantly throughout the Bible. From Old Testament to New the fact that he has revealed himself. Whether it's through Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, or so on. For every single one of these to be made up, it would have to be the greatest scam in all of history. Even that does not deny the existence of God, that denies the Abrahamic God in particular, but I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Not only that, but throughout history and into modern-day we continue to see miracles. The Catholic Church actually has a site that keeps tracks of modern miracles. These are those that science cannot explain. (Miracles - Latest News :: Catholic News Agency (CNA))
2: Being the creator, God is the standard of morality. You cannot justify morality without the existence of God as stated in one of Thomas Aquinas' proofs. God grants a life eternal of bliss to those who are good and righteous so I would, in fact, say that those are our best interests. (I wouldn't make the morality of Hell argument if I were you, that seems to be an easy to defeat stance)
3: The Bible is valid as it is the most accurate ancient writing of all. There are around 25,000 thousand archeological findings to back it up and nearly 25,000 manuscripts that attest to its accuracy. There are also many extra-biblical writings from the same time that back up its claims. (Especially those about Christ) All prophecies in the Bible (except those pertaining to the second coming) have been fulfilled. Given all these pieces, I would, in fact, say that it is reliable.
4: Yes, the Bible speaks out very loudly against homosexuality.
Jude 7 records that Sodom and Gomorrah “acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust.” Ezekiel says that Sodom committed “abominable things” (Ezek. 16:50), which could refer to homosexual and heterosexual acts of sin. Lot even offered his two virgin daughters in place of his guests, but the men of Sodom rejected the offer, preferring homosexual sex over heterosexual sex (Gen. 19:8–9).
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
"The law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, men who practise homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine." (1 Timothy. 1:9-10)
5: There aren't many ways to interpret these verses other than the view that homosexuality is sinful.
I would like to know your opinion on this. I noticed that your profile said "Abrahamic Religion" which is rather general. I'd like to know more about your personal beliefs so that I can better angle my argument. I hope you found this helpful, cheers.