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Do you just accept your current state of mind, or do you try to change it?

Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
crossfire said:
The purpose of anger is to remove obstacles. Use it to remove the obstacle of the angry, boiling state of your mind that impedes clear thinking.
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Fighting anger with anger? Or craving with craving? I don't see how that would work. Could you give a practical example of how you've applied this?
 
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Maponos

Maponos

Welcome to the Opera
Rick O'Shez said:
An everyday example might help. Say I'm in the checkout line at the supermarket, and there is a delay, maybe the customer at the head of the queue has a problem with their plastic, and the customer is making a big deal about it, the supervisor has been called. And the delay extends.

With one state of mind I might get increasingly impatient, frustrated, even angry, and I might make a sarcastic comment to the checkout person when I get there, making their day even worse.
With another state of mind the delay is no big deal, and when I finally get to the checkout I will smile and say "no problem" and maybe lighten the atmosphere.

The question here is about recognising and dealing with the first state of mind.
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I believe you're over thinking it. Just be considerate.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Rick O'Shez said:
I've noticed some different approaches on this. Some say that one should just recognise and accept whatever states of mind arise, and let them be, a passive approach. Others say that one should then apply Right Effort as appropriate, consciously "replacing" unskillfull mental states and thoughts with more skillfull ones.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vayamo/

Note that an initial recognition and acceptance of one's state of mind is common to both approaches. Note also that we are dealing here primarily with practice off the cushion.

I favour the Right Effort approach, particularly when dealing with habitual or persistent states like anxiety. Just accepting a particular state of mind and doing nothing doesn't always work for me. It might be as simple as doing something else, or thinking about something else.

So what do you think?
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seems to me whether you want to or can change your state of mind is a separate question from do you accept it. On the other hand, even if you do not want to change it, future circumstances (and internal electrochemical processes will cause changes beyond your control.
 
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
"Do you just accept your current state of mind, or do you try to change it?"

My state of mind was to change my state on my mind, until I changed it, so now I'm not changing it anymore.
 
O

Osal

Active Member
I think the mind will change whether I try to do something about it or not. Mind states arise and disolve. Always.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Osal said:
I think the mind will change whether I try to do something about it or not. Mind states arise and disolve. Always.
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Alas,

By that simple realisation of emptiness of all phenomena, including body and mind, provides that kind of clarity.

:0)
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Osal said:
Little too cryptic?

I don't "do" anything. Thoughts and emotions arise and disolve all by themselves. No need to interfere. No need to act. Just rest in the present.
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Even when unskillful states of mind are leading you into unskillful behaviours?
 
O

Osal

Active Member
Rick O'Shez said:
Even when unskillful states of mind are leading you into unskillful behaviours?
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All thoughts can be seen as "unskillfull". For a thought to become behavior there must be some volitional action on your part. If you rest in the present, thoughts don't lead to actions.

That's not as easy as it sounds. It takes lots of practice. Lots.
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Osal said:
All thoughts can be seen as "unskillfull". For a thought to become behavior there must be some volitional action on your part. If you rest in the present, thoughts don't lead to actions.
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No, not all thoughts can be seen as unskillful, that is a basic misunderstanding. And allowing thoughts to pass rather than acting on them is also a decision.

But we are not just discussing thoughts, we are discussing the states of mind which give rise to thoughts and feelings.
 
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psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
For me personally I see the mind for what it is, a tool, I realize that the tool is to be used as a tool throughout this life, that this mind body organism has appeared in. This realization helps to stop the mind taking control, and continually seeing this the mind then becomes tame, it becomes that which it should be, a tool.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
psychoslice said:
For me personally I see the mind for what it is, a tool, I realize that the tool is to be used as a tool throughout this life, that this mind body organism has appeared in. This realization helps to stop the mind taking control, and continually seeing this the mind then becomes tame, it becomes that which it should be, a tool.
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Oftentimes I'll look or think about the oxherding pictures in cases like this. :0)
 
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