Do people understand the trinity doctrine?

[Ingledsva]

Ingledsva,
Allow me to sum up three arguments to demonstrate the truth of Ephesians 4:6.
'One God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'

This passage from Ephesians nicely captures the concept of the trinity. In the Old Testament, or Tanakh, God is above all. His word is communicated primarily through prophets.
Owing to the sinfulness of mankind, it became necessary for God to enter the earthly arena. For only God is a Saviour from sin.

What follows is the Gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. The trinity becomes a New Testament reality.

God is 'through all' by the Word of God , otherwise known as the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Christ is spirit. The Word of God is Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, dwells within every believer. It is 'in you all' (speaking to the Church).

The following three scriptural arguments add weight to the idea that GOD HAS COME TO EARTH. This does not mean that GOD is NOT in heaven even when he is on earth!! God can be on earth and in heaven.

Argument 1. Christ is worthy of WORSHIP. Angels worship him.
Argument 2. Christ is our SAVIOUR. Only God is able to save from sin.
Argument 3. Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven. Christ is an earthly and HEAVENLY KING. It's all one kingdom under one king.

From the responses given, I don't see that any of these arguments have been adequately countered.

LOL! Every one of your points has been more then adequately answered!

You have been shown to be wrong over-and-over, by several different people.

As to Ephesians 4:6. 'One God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.' --

How exactly - in your mind - does this sentence including ONLY God the Father - prove a trinity doctrine - or that Jesus is God?

Inquiring minds want to know?

ALSO - You conveniently leave out the previous verse showing Jesus is a separate being.


Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Obviously - TWO separate beings - a human Messiah, and God the Father.
*

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Trinity is easy to cheat on lol.
Any non-christian that burns in hell for disbelieving in trinity would say: but hey, your Trinity doctrine was confusing and made no sense!

 

[WirePaladin]

I think it is sad and depressing that 7 pages have been devoted to discussing this nonsense. The entire thing is absurd, a meaningless fairy tale from 2K years ago, thought up by ignorant sheep herders who believed in evil spirits and things that bump in the night.

 

[Ingledsva]

I think it is sad and depressing that 7 pages have been devoted to discussing this nonsense. The entire thing is absurd, a meaningless fairy tale from 2K years ago, thought up by ignorant sheep herders who believed in evil spirits and things that bump in the night.

None the less - they believe it, - and try to force their religious laws, and ideas, on the rest of us.

Thus we must debunk what they are pushing, - using their own texts if at all possible.

*

 

[Desert Snake]

Boy are you confused! Re-read! I obviously did NOT say that.

YHVH is telling them in a very specific situation, to worship only him rather than other Gods/Idols.

He is saying he saved them by sending Moses, not their golden idols.

It has nothing to do with worshiping/bowing to/revering Appointed Kings, or the Messiah.

According to the Bible - the HUMAN MESSIAH - is given a thrown beside God, - so obviously there is no problem bowing to him, as to other appointed HUMAN Kings.

*

You don't seem to understand monotheism. We don't bow, worship, or honor anything/entities, that isn't God. Jesus has to be God, for our faith. This other people sitting next to God stuff is metaphor.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Well,Johnlove, I believe your testimony.

There was a guy no far from where I live that gave a similar testimony to yours. He was at the point of death when he heard the audible voice of the Lord. He said it was most definitely not just in his head. The Lord told him he would recover from his illness.

 

[WirePaladin]

Well,Johnlove, I believe your testimony.

There was a guy no far from where I live that gave a similar testimony to yours. He was at the point of death when he heard the audible voice of the Lord. He said it was most definitely not just in his head. The Lord told him he would recover from his illness.

Why is that ALL these stories are unverified and Unverifiable?

I ask with Voltaire, "Where are the crutches?" No one has ever answered that. They only relate "stories" like the above. You want to believe this stuff DO SO!! But don't pretend you have any actual evidence for any of it.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Ingledsva, before I respond to points you've raised, can you tell me why you accept the Tanakh as God's word, but not the New Testament?

 

[Redemptionsong]

WirePaladin, religious experiences are invariably individual and subjective, which means that they cannot be proven in the manner that you would like them proven. However, as the philosopher Richard Swinburne suggests, it it better to apply the principles of credulity and testimony in matters of religious experience. Unless you have good reason not to believe your own experience, or the word of another who has had an experience, then you should trust them.

Having witnessed God at work, I have no problem accepting Johnlove's word.

 

[Nada]

Bible Student should be able to answer this easily if he has truly stdied the Bible. the belief in "going to Heaven" is probablyone of the most important beliefs in many religions. yet there is not one verse that uses the word heaven and says anyone has gone or will go there. there are hints and suggestions but no direct statement. "in my Father's house are many mansions" is very questionable. could a if you take it literally, could a house really have many mansions in it? some interpret this verse to mean in God's government there are many positions and Jesus is preparing a position for us. and since Jesus will set up that government on earth the positions will not be in Heaven but in God's earthly government. so the meaning is not as obvious as many think. we still need that one verse that says people go to Heaven but since the Bible actually says "no man has ascended to Heaven" it may be hard to find a verse that say he has or will go there

You answered your own question.

"there are hints and suggestions but no direct statement."

Exactly...... Jesus makes it very clear with his suggestions and statements.

Like if I were to say,I'm gonna hit the sack,you already know I mean bed.I did not directly state that I was going to bed,but you get the idea.

Another thing.It does not say mansions in the original Greek text.It says "dwellings."


(Emphatic Diaglott)
(Interlinear Text)
1865 by Benjamin Wilson

John 14:2 In the house of the Father of me dwellings many are; if but not, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you;


So we can see that the word mansions is never in the Greek text.The word used is dwellings.

If one goes to the original language the NT was written in,it is easier to see and understand what was really being said.So,it is all a misunderstanding based on your inaccurate reading of the scriptures.

You stated "Bible Student should be able to answer this easily if he has truly stdied the Bible."


Sometimes studying a bible or bibles is not enough.One must go to the holy scriptures in its original languages to get a better understanding of words used and how.Hebrew and Aramaic for the OT.Koine Greek for the NT.


So yes....I have studied.

 

[Nada]

Trinity is easy to cheat on lol.
Any non-christian that burns in hell for disbelieving in trinity would say: but hey, your Trinity doctrine was confusing and made no sense!

It is a good thing then that there is no literal hell where God has people tortured for eternity.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

and when Jesus says He is going to prepare a place for us He then says He is coming back to earth to gather us to Himself. He will set up God's kingdom on earth and be it's King and we will dwell with Him on earth. the place He is preparing for us is a place in His kingdom. the word "dwellings" is also translated as "place of authority"

 

[Nada]

Like I told you only a few will believe scripture.

Jesus told us he would call his own out, and they would recognize his voice.


Jesus has communicated with me in a number of different ways, and audibly calling me by name is only one of them.


A Spiritual Christian will become so close to Jesus that he or she will have the mind of Christ.


(1 Corinthians 2:16) “As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”


With one having the mind of Christ, it is as if Jesus’ thoughts are his or her thoughts.


What is shard about the Spiritual walk with Jesus is laughed at by those who are not spiritual.


That means for the last forty some years almost everyone that knows me wants to believe I need a psychiatrist’s help.


What most people don’t know is that my wife had a degree in behavior science. Two of my daughter have master degrees in psychiatry. In fact one daughter has a year more than a master degree.


Sharing about a spiritual walk with Jesus has not made for much of a social life.


Jesus told me that was my cross to bear. Before accepting Jesus call people actually liked me. I was a president of two clubs. One in my church, and a business men’s club.

Also an acting president in another social club.


Now those clubs would not even want me as a member.

"Jesus has communicated with me in a number of different ways, and audibly calling me by name is only one of them."

Jesus does not speak to people literally today.If you are hearing voices,it is not Gods doing.

 

[Johnlove]

"Jesus has communicated with me in a number of different ways, and audibly calling me by name is only one of them."

Jesus does not speak to people literally today.If you are hearing voices,it is not Gods doing.

So you say.

 

[Nada]

and when Jesus says He is going to prepare a place for us He then says He is coming back to earth to gather us to Himself. He will set up God's kingdom on earth and be it's King and we will dwell with Him on earth. the place He is preparing for us is a place in His kingdom. the word "dwellings" is also translated as "place of authority"

When Jesus states that he will be with his people on earth,and they will be with him,this does not mean literally hanging out with Jesus.It means they will be under him,as he will be King,temporarily of course.We know that Jesus does not mean Heaven because that is reserved for those who have heavenly hope.Here is an example.

Luke 23:42,43. …42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

We know that Jesus did not mean heaven because these two men at Jesus sides were not baptized in water and spirit.Another thing is that Jesus had not yet ascended up to heaven yet until 40 days after he was risen form the dead.So we know he means paradise earth.

 

[Nada]

and when Jesus says He is going to prepare a place for us He then says He is coming back to earth to gather us to Himself. He will set up God's kingdom on earth and be it's King and we will dwell with Him on earth. the place He is preparing for us is a place in His kingdom. the word "dwellings" is also translated as "place of authority"

Jesus is an eternal spirt,not a human.His dwelling place is heaven.He will control things from heaven.

 

[WirePaladin]

WirePaladin, religious experiences are invariably individual and subjective, which means that they cannot be proven in the manner that you would like them proven. However, as the philosopher Richard Swinburne suggests, it it better to apply the principles of credulity and testimony in matters of religious experience. Unless you have good reason not to believe your own experience, or the word of another who has had an experience, then you should trust them.

Having witnessed God at work, I have no problem accepting Johnlove's word.

OK! I have an owl, a living large bird that visits me. It comes to my window at nite when I am writing. It stares at me. I get words in my head. I write quicker more exact, in more compelling prose when my owl stares at me. It comes at random times, no schedule, but when it appears I see it and my work is much better. My "religious experience."
Do you believe it? Are you impressed with my "experience? Are you anxious to meet my owl?
If not, why not?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

OK Jesus may have a permanent home in Heaven and may control things from there but the kingdom will beon earth and those who follow Jesus will be in that kingdom on earth. why does the Lord's prayer say - thy kingdom come, thy will be done ON EARTH? because the kindom will be on earth and people will be doing God's will on earth not in Heaven. only the Father and Son will be in Heaven

 

[Desert Snake]

Trinity is easy to cheat on lol.
Any non-christian that burns in hell for disbelieving in trinity would say: but hey, your Trinity doctrine was confusing and made no sense!

They weren't supposed to be worshipping the trinity doctrine in the first place.

 

[Brian Stoin]

I think the OP is unconcerned with whether or not it was made up or borrowed, rather whether people understand what it says, not if it's true or not.

In that case, many pre-Christian civilizations had triune Gods, including trinitarian and tritheistic.

The trinity "doctrine" was not established by the Christians until the end of the fourth century.