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Can We Tolerate Conspiracy Theories?

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've had a look through the wikipedia page on the "New World Order" conspiracy theories, and I'm surprised by how many ideas I actually share with them, or have come accross over the years.

e.g. A "North american union" of the US, Canada, Mexico, the European Union as part of a step towards world government, the threat of genocide and neo-malthusian policies in response to environmental problems, the kennedy assasination, corporate conspiracies, UFOs, 9/11 truthers, FEMA camps, etc.

What started out as a fringe thinking from Evangelical Christians with "end-time" prophesies, and the Far-Right "Patriot movement", has gone pretty much mainstream. Conspiracy theories are now a part of popular culture (especially on Youtube). Whilst these things can be "fun" and entertaining, they are also politically very damaging.

The top of the list, has to be Climate Change denial which is real, man-made and does pose a thread to the future of the planet. There is a consensus that it exists, but there is no consensus about how bad it will be.

I think for the US, another example has to be about fears over Gun control laws and Public Healthcare, as extensions of government power as a way to threaten people's civil liberties, whilst other countries in the world do in fact have gun control and public healthcare without such problems. We've also seen the idea that the fact there is a (cough...black) president in the US who had to demonstrate that he was actually born in the country and was elligable to run by producing his birth certificate.

Clearly, when conspiracy theories are taken seriously, they are damaging to the legitimacy of the current system of government which remains democratic and liberal. it's not a perfect system by any measure, but its still "the best we've got". its part of a anti-political and anti-capitalist culture of apathy, cynicism and (relatively futile) individual dissent which is attacking the ideals of the very institutions many of these conspiracy theorists profess to wish to preserve. Individually, they are harmless. but collectively, its deeply corrosive.

There are of course, exceptions such as Edward Snowden producing evidence of Mass Survialliance in the US and by intelligence agencies around the world.

So I'm wondering, can we as individuals really be tolerant of conspiracy theories or should we try to discredit them when we have the oppurtunity?

Is there a relationship between conspiracy theories and religion as a form of mysticism? Can we trust the government and yet remain alert to conspiracies when they do happen?

And (dare I say it), should the government and/or the media take steps to counter conspiracy theories to promote a democratic culture? what would they be?

[hmm... that ought to work. :D]

If any of you have good advice as to how to convince people that conspiracy theories are not true, it might be worth sharing.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I think its really stupid to assume that just because something is labeled a conspiracy theory, it has to be wrong and ridiculed, maybe most conspiracy theories are wrong, but some of them have to be right, even if it is a small percent IMHO.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
There is a HUGE difference between odd coincidences and statistical anomalies & planned, organized, malicious, directed Conspiracy Theories.

People are far too eager to turn the former into faith in the latter.
 
Some theories have legitimacy. In fact there are several theories, especially in America, where they have been found to be true. I do not know why action isn't usually taken.
 
There are many things we do not know.When it sounds crazy, people call it a conspiracy.Most of the time it is true.People do not want to know the truth sometimes.They do not wish to confront it.Once you start digging, and finding answers, it can drive one mad.You then try to explain it to people and they look at you like you are crazy.

Watch and Listen to this video clip.It is a movie called "Conspiracy Theory" with Mel Gibson.Listen to all the conspiracies he mentions.It is amazing!

 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
I think most government conspiracies (at least of the large scale tin foil hat variety) are complete and total BS. The government doesn't have the kind of competency required to pull them off.

But corporations? I don't believe in complex conspiracies but simple things, like price fixing.... happen every day.

I think the odds of a conspiracy being true is almost inversely proportional to the number of people involved. A few VP's getting together to set prices, believable and massively profitable. So yeah. Twin towers blown up as a government conspiracy? This would require large numbers of people and carries massive risk if every found out. Add this to the fact that there are much easier ways to start wars and it's absurd.
 
I think most government conspiracies (at least of the large scale tin foil hat variety) are complete and total BS. The government doesn't have the kind of competency required to pull them off.
.
But wasn't it revelaed a few years ago that the United States government had been spying on everyone in their country and many outside their country illegally? The NSA right? That was a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true and on a huge scale.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
You can try to validate them. It's tough though because people take facts and weave a story around them, You can take a lot of unrelated facts and imagine some sinister correlation. You can't dispute the facts and there usually is nothing available to dispute the story.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Well when I first heard mention of the NSA in the early 80s it was definitely presented to me as a conspiracy theory, a HUGE building employing thousands of thousands of people taking up an enormous but secret amount of the Governments budget in charge of you guessed it surveillance of US citizens. Just goes to tell you back when the NSA was just another huge conspiracy theory, it took 30 years before it turned out to be true all a long.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
But wasn't it revelaed a few years ago that the United States government had been spying on everyone in their country and many outside their country illegally? The NSA right? That was a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true and on a huge scale.

It was revealed. That is my point. The government is really bad at keeping large secrets like that. Little things yes. A secret agent with a few handlers, sure. But a massive conspiracy? It always comes out.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Well when I first heard mention of the NSA in the early 80s it was definitely presented to me as a conspiracy theory, a HUGE building employing thousands of thousands of people taking up an enormous but secret amount of the Governments budget in charge of you guessed it surveillance of US citizens. Just goes to tell you back when the NSA was just another huge conspiracy theory, it took 30 years before it turned out to be true all a long.

The NSA is a intelligence agency that has thousands of employees (it used to be the larger than the FBI). But domestic spying of the type that we were informed of was a relatively recent phenomenon.

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think for the US, another example has to be about fears over Gun control laws......
This doesn't appear to be a conspiracy theory though.
Many politicians openly state their desire to impose more gun control, to interpret the 2nd Amendment as only giving government the right to bear arms, & to remove guns from society.
It's not a "conspiracy" if they do what comes naturally & it's done openly.
It's just politics.
 
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It was revealed. That is my point. The government is really bad at keeping large secrets like that. Little things yes. A secret agent with a few handlers, sure. But a massive conspiracy? It always comes out.
They hid it for 8 years before it was revealed though. I think I understand what you mean though. But I do not agree that massive conspiracy theories are always come out.
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
In my book, the "New World Order" isn't new, and it doesn't need spooky symbolism (especially not where *everyone* can see it - the Illuminati would have to be really lazy to just put all-seeing eyes everywhere in the open). Puppet governments and global empires have been a fixture of world geopolitics for centuries. It is true that the CIA was involved in the Latin American drug trade; it is true that they toppled democratic governments. The Department of Defense proposed a false flag bomb attack credited to the Cuban government. There's evidence that the US military knew that Japan would surrender without using the bomb, but wanted to make a show of force after its discover.

I don't believe in stuff like "9/11" truth - why would the world's biggest capitalist power bomb its main financial center? And obviously, any and all anti-Semitic theories are repugnant and should die.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The op is word salad, it needs to focus on one specific theory at a time.

sorry about that. I wasn't focusing on one theory.

What I was trying to say was that conspiracy theories are deeply corrosive to public trust in democratic institutions and that the widespread profusion of conspiracy theories is more conducive to dictatorial systems. If we see conpiracies everywhere, we will end up very polarised between those who refuse to the trust the government and those who want to it to take away our freedoms to preserve order against unspecified threats. the sheer number of conspiracy theories that are in circulation now is alarming as we could end up making decisions based on suspicision rather than information.
 
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