Can someone help me understand this?

[~Amin~]

We couldn't decide what the text meant between us so I quoted a scholar called Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi from his book "towards understanding the koran - Tafheem ul quran" assuming that you guys wouldn't assume to know more than he does on what this passage from the koran meant.
Was I wrong to do this?

1.To limit a verse from the Glorious Qur'an
to one falable human is considered in Islam a
major deviation.
2. Youve underlined certain statements
of yours, which suggests we should be at
war with non muslims, as i mentioned
previously,and gave brief response.
3.In the Holy Bible you have verses like,
EZEKIEL9,5
And i heard God say to the other men,"Follow
him through the city and kill.SPARE NO ONE ;
KILL THE OLD MEN, YOUNG MEN , YOUNG WOMEN,
MOTHERS, and CHILDREN,
and the HORROR cotinues.

The Lord is a witness there are MANY other verses
if you like i may print, but through the Grace of God
speaking to people these kind of disputes dont
lead to usefull discussions.

 

[*Paul*]

1.To limit a verse from the Glorious Qur'an
to one falable human is considered in Islam a
major deviation.
2. Youve underlined certain statements
of yours, which suggests we should be at
war with non muslims, as i mentioned
previously,and gave brief response.
3.In the Holy Bible you have verses like,
EZEKIEL9,5
And i heard God say to the other men,"Follow
him through the city and kill.SPARE NO ONE ;
KILL THE OLD MEN, YOUNG MEN , YOUNG WOMEN,
MOTHERS, and CHILDREN,
and the HORROR cotinues.

The Lord is a witness there are MANY other verses
if you like i may print, but through the Grace of God
speaking to people these kind of disputes dont
lead to usefull discussions.

Well you have made the classic mistake of mistaking a physical struggle with a spiritual one, there are many ways to fight to change government, one would be to evangelise the country for islam and set up rival politicians. I never meant that you should try to engage in physical combat to overthrow the governments, as I have been told many times there are different kinds of Jihad, you have just presumed that I am trying to make Islam look bad.

And I am not one bit ashamed of anything that is written in the holy bible.

 

[*Paul*]

1.To limit a verse from the Glorious Qur'an
to one falable human is considered in Islam a
major deviation.

So there is no one correct interpretation then?

 

[~Amin~]

. First, that the believer struggles to put an end to the hegemony of the un-Islamic system and to have it replaced by the Islamic system of life, as the Prophets and their early followers had done.



According to him if you are not struggling to change the political system of the place to an Islamic one and you are not disabled then you should not be in the land living at ease at all but be fighting to change the system to an islamic one.

This does not mean, however, that the duty to migrate was abolished for Muslims all over the world for all time to come regardless of the circumstances in which they lived.

What Moududi has said here confirms what i thought the text meant, he is the scholar after all.

Dear Paul Im sorry if i misunderstood you
as you know its easy sometimes to be misunderstood,
just these statements seemed to me that way.

 

[Sahar]

3.In the Holy Bible you have verses like,
EZEKIEL9,5
And i heard God say to the other men,"Follow
him through the city and kill.SPARE NO ONE ;
KILL THE OLD MEN, YOUNG MEN , YOUNG WOMEN,
MOTHERS, and CHILDREN,
and the HORROR cotinues.

Amin, please, what does the bible have to do with us here in this thread?

We couldn't decide what the text meant between us so I quoted a scholar called Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi from his book "towards understanding the koran - Tafheem ul quran" assuming that you guys wouldn't assume to know more than he does on what this passage from the koran meant.

Three or four brothers gave you the same answer but you weren't convinced. Then i tired to give you opinions of scholars from Al-Azhar and the European council for Fatwa (they are scholars also).
I don't claim that i am well-informed about Abu Al -A'la Al-Maududi but he is a great Muslim thinker in the last century but he also believed in and worked for establishing an Islamic state and Islamic khilafa and he was the founder of an Islamic political party; Jama't al Islam in Pakistan. So, i think you should consider his background while reading his opinions. I do the same when i read Sayyed Qutb thoughts on the Qur'an, i read it carefully as i am aware of his ideologies that i may not agree with and which can be justified by the historical, political and social circumstances at that time.

 

[~Amin~]

So there is no one correct interpretation then?

Indeed there are correct interpretations, but
one shouldnt limit himself to one interpretation
alone.
Further most of the Qur'an is interpreted by the
Qur'an itself like the Holy Bible.
And im happy for you that you are not ashamed
of the Holy Bible, why should you be, i didnt say
anything is wrong with your faith , i just believe
mine is more accurate ,the way you believe yours
is more accurate.

 

[~Amin~]

Amin, please, what does the bible have to do with us here in this thread?
.

Ill just leave then sorry for shareing my thoughts.

 

[~Amin~]

Dear Paul chat with you elsewere.

 

[Sahar]

Ill just leave then sorry for shareing my thoughts.

It's not about sharing your thoughts Amin, what i meant is we don't have to turn this threads into an argument about what the bible says or doesn't in contrast to what the Qur'an says. Then the thread would get closed....just let's focus on the original topic.

 

[*Paul*]

Thank you for listening to my thoughts and answering my questions you guys, I feel i understand it better now.
I think it is probably just as well if we discuss things in the debate forum from now on as we seem to misunderstand each other and distrust each other so much that we inevitably end up debating and arguing.

No hard feelings though my friends, may God's love fill your hearts.

 

[yirme]

So there is no one correct interpretation then?

peace,
there are many correct interpretations within the verses of the quran.

if i say i am going to eat some rice, you can also interpret it as:
i am going to obtain some rice
i am going to cook some rice
i am going to masticate some rice
i am going to swallow some cooked, masticated rice
i am going to digest some rice
i am going to extract nutrients from some rice
i am going to defecate the unused portion of some rice.....

these can all be "interpreted" from me simply saying "i am going to eat some rice," and they would all be accurate.
if i was able to interpret 7 things(i could easily add more) from a simple statement, surely something revealed by God would have much more depth, even if most people never see or understand it.


peace

 

[yirme]

Amin, please, what does the bible have to do with us here in this thread?

the quran tells us that the torah and prophets (the old testament of the bible, of which isaiah is part) were sent by God. so i would say it is very relevant to this thread in the islam section, even more relevant than the thoughts of 'scholars'.

 

[zulkarneyn1]

if you are a muslim and able to not live it under the pressure of the government, then this means you are in trouble and then you might have the chance to migrate, but logically nowadays noone is in such a position, so this is for the ones who wants to live without the Qur'an and this is just their lies that they were in trouble, but be careful God knows our inside better then us, there is no way to run, non believers are the ones who will believe into fire with regret..

 

[moslem]

please read my thread :
islam is true
in sunni forum

thank you

 

[.lava]

THOSE WHO HOLD BACK FROM HIJRAH (MIGRATION)
It is not permissible for the Muslim to re- side in the lands of the disbelievers when there are Muslim lands that exist. This is especially so if his residence in the lands of disbelief will involve him in fitnah [trouble for his religion]. Allaah does not accept the excuse of those refrain from making Hijrah (migration). Thus. Allaah informs us that the angels will reproach this group of people at the time of death and they will not accept their excuses when they plead to them saying that they were oppressed in the land.
Allaah says (which means): Verily as for those who the angels take in death while they are wronging themselves, they say to them: "in what state were you?" They reply: "We were weak and oppressed in the land." They (angels) say: "Was not Allaah's Earth spacious enough for you to migrate?" Such men will find their abode in Hell-what an evil destination! Except the weak among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan nor are they able to make their way. Surat An-Nisaa (4:97-98)
Allah does not accept excuses from such individuals, except for those who are weak and can not find the method to leave, and they are not able to make away by which they will be directed to the land of Islaam. [Note from the editors: this is a general rule that has been under-explained here. One is encouraged to see what the great wise scholar Ibn'Uthaymeen explained about related guidelines in the book "Explanation of the Three Fundamental Principles of Islaam" (al-Hidaayah Publishing)]

Why True Islamic Scholar is Must? Dr. Umar Sulaymaan al-Ashqar, THOSE WHO ENTER THE HELLFIRE BUT WILL NOT REMAIN IN IT FOREVER, Discover the True Religion of Muslim - Islam a way of life, About Islam, Muslim, Quran, Religion, Allah, Muhammad, Islamic

Is this saying that if Muslims are being persecuted in a non muslim country they should live in a Muslim one? And if you don't you will find you're abode in Hellfire??

only reason why people earn hell is that they never wish to reach God in worldly life. spend your entire life in non-Muslim nation, if your heart beats to reach God, you are with God. so to speak, everybody reaches God. some before death (heaven), some after death (hell).

.

 

[*Paul*]

only reason why people earn hell is that they never wish to reach God in worldly life. spend your entire life in non-Muslim nation, if your heart beats to reach God, you are with God. so to speak, everybody reaches God. some before death (heaven), some after death (hell).

.

Hi Lava

Is this your opinion or the teaching of your religion, if it is can you provide evidence from your scriptures.

 

[Amica]

Hi Paul--
The verses you quote (4:97-98) are very clear. If you and your people are persecuted in the land where you live, and you know that there is a place where you can be saved, then you must leave with them in order that you save yourself, your family and in the process preserve your religious community. The verses are telling us that Allah SWT provides help. Saying that you stayed somewhere opressed, without trying to get yourself away from that opression, is like saying that Allah SWT provided you no help at all. And that would be lying about Allah SWT, which does make one experience Hell Fire.
Keep in mind that not all Muslims left Mecca immediately. The migration was gradual, but people worked towards it the best they could.
Also, when one who is opressed stays in the opressive society without trying to get away from it, then gradually he/she starts to abandon Islam and therefore adopts a lot of non-Islamic practices. Perfect example is Spain. When the Ottomans were driven away from Spain, many Muslims were driven out and killed. Some stayed, but were converted to Catholicism. To this day, their descendants have remained non-Muslim and probably are not even aware of their Muslim ancestry.