Bernie Sanders Running for US President

[dust1n]

http://canberniewin.com/

A friend's personal contribution.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news....
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/14/s...nded-on-racist-principles-thats-a-fact-video/
Sanders is losing some of his luster for me......
- He looks at our Constution & our revolution, & sees only racism.
- He thinks that Obama's election is racial progress.

 

[Politesse]

And you disagree with that? Our nation was founded on racist principles. Those weren't the only principles it was founded on (and Sanders didn't claim they were), but there would have been no nation to "found" without some racist assumptions. Our very land base is dependent on the assumption that people of Native race could not own land in the same sense as a white person. If Indians could own land in the proper sense, neither Britain nor our fledgling government could lay legal claim to any of the land not directly conquered or traded for, ie most of the East Coast at that time and nearly all of the frontier. No land, no country. And most of the Southern economy of the time was based on slave labor, which similarly required race-based legislation.

 

[metis]

In the news....
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/14/s...nded-on-racist-principles-thats-a-fact-video/
Sanders is losing some of his luster for me......
- He looks at our Constution & our revolution, & sees only racism.
- He thinks that Obama's election is racial progress.

Actually it quite clearly was a step in the direction of racial progress, and I don't think there's any doubt about that one iota. Unfortunately, there are many who want to drive the "car" back the other way, both white and black.

And you badly overstate how he views the Constitution and our early years as a country, both of which definitely involved quite a bit of racism and sexism. How could anyone believe that they didn't? But he didn't say he only views our early history and Constitution in just those terms.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually it quite clearly was a step in the direction of racial progress, and I don't think there's any doubt about that one iota. Unfortunately, there are many who want to drive the "car" back the other way, both white and black.

It was mere appearance of a step in the direction of racial progress.
His conduct (law prof fiasco) might've even set things back a skosh.

And you badly overstate how he views the Constitution and our early years as a country, both of which definitely involved quite a bit of racism and sexism. How could anyone believe that they didn't? But he didn't say he only views our early history and Constitution in just those terms.

I think you read his comments with greater charity than I do.

Still, he looks like the best the Dems have to offer us.

 

[metis]

It was mere appearance of a step in the direction of racial progress.
His conduct (law prof fiasco) might've even set things back a skosh.

I think you read his comments with greater charity than I do.

Still, he looks like the best the Dems have to offer us.

I've heard him speak many times, including talking about things this arena, and I simply cannot see how you got what you did out of what he said. Do you really think he's that ignorant? Was there racism back then? Did our actions and even our Constitution reflect racism then? Is the Pope Catholic?

I think Obama did overstep his bounds at times in the racial area, especially early on, but I hardly think he's to blame for some of the backtracking with what we've seeing happening more recently.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've heard him speak many times, including talking about things this arena, and I simply cannot see how you got what you did out of what he said. Do you really think he's that ignorant? Was there racism back then? Did our actions and even our Constitution reflect racism then? Is the Pope Catholic?

I don't think ignorance is the issue.
I just greatly disagree with his perspective that the country's founding was about racism.
Racism was there, but the primary founding principals were about liberty & stable government.

I think Obama did overstep his bounds at times in the racial area, especially early on, but I hardly think he's to blame for some of the backtracking with what we've seeing happening more recently.

He's certainly no asset in that area.

 

[metis]

I don't think ignorance is the issue.
I just greatly disagree with his perspective that the country's founding was about racism.
Racism was there, but the primary founding principals were about liberty & stable government.

I never have heard his say, and it would be idiotic if he did, namely that somehow racism was the only thing reflected in this country's founding. I have never heard him say anything like that-- quite the contrary.

He's certainly no asset in that area.

Again, I disagree, but he's obviously not "the solution" to the problem. Other countries have looked at his election as a great accomplishment that spoke well for us, and his popularity internationally is still quite high in most countries but certainly not all. Time will tell how Americans will view him overall, but he's running well ahead of the Bushes and Reagan near the end of their years in office.

BTW, did you hear what the former head of MI6 said of Obama's foreign policies yesterday on Fareed Zakaria's program?

 

[Politesse]

I don't think ignorance is the issue.
I just greatly disagree with his perspective that the country's founding was about racism.
Racism was there, but the primary founding principals were about liberty & stable government.

He didn't say anything about racism being the only founding principle...

 

[metis]

He didn't say anything about racism being the only founding principle...

Ya, I gotta agree with ya here.

 

[Revoltingest]

I never have heard his say, and it would be idiotic if he did, namely that somehow racism was the only thing reflected in this country's founding. I have never heard him say anything like that-- quite the contrary.

I don't claim that he said the underlined portion.

Again, I disagree, but he's obviously not "the solution" to the problem. Other countries have looked at his election as a great accomplishment that spoke well for us, and his popularity internationally is still quite high in most countries but certainly not all. Time will tell how Americans will view him overall, but he's running well ahead of the Bushes and Reagan near the end of their years in office.

Foreign & domestic Obama fans will have their opinions about Obama.
But I wasn't addressing his entire record (which I find mixed) here.

BTW, did you hear what the former head of MI6 said of Obama's foreign policies yesterday on Fareed Zakaria's program?

Fareed who?

 

[Revoltingest]

He didn't say anything about racism being the only founding principle...

True.
But then I don't claim that he did.

 

[metis]

I don't claim that he said the underlined portion.

Here's what you had posted: "I just greatly disagree with his perspective that the country's founding was about racism." The way it's worded (especially focus on the part I underlined), that's pretty conclusive because there's no qualifying words to limit it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Here's what you had posted: "I just greatly disagree with his perspective that the country's founding was about racism." The way it's worded (especially focus on the part I underlined), that's pretty conclusive because there's no qualifying words to limit it.

I see what you're inferring, but it's overly narrow.
To be "about" something is not to say that there are no other components.
Had I intended that, then I would've preceded "about" with "only".

Should we really wallow in parsing & mis-parsing of text?

 

[columbus]

Should we really wallow in parsing & mis-parsing of text?

HAHAHAHAHA......
You just slay me sometimes
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

HAHAHAHAHA......
You just slay me sometimes
Tom

Tis better that you laugh at me than with me.
Or something like that.

 

[dust1n]

In the news....
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/14/s...nded-on-racist-principles-thats-a-fact-video/
Sanders is losing some of his luster for me......
- He looks at our Constution & our revolution, & sees only racism.
- He thinks that Obama's election is racial progress.

"SANDERS: I hope that every person in this room today understands that it is unacceptable to judge people, discriminate against people based on the color of their skin. And I will also say, that as a nation — the truth is a nation that in many ways was created, and I’m sorry to have to say this from way back, on racist principles, that’s a fact. We have come a long way as a nation. Now I know, my guess is that probably not everybody here is an admirer or a voter for Barack Obama, but the point is that in 2008, this country took a huge step forward in voting for a candidate based on his ideas and not the color of his skin."

How does one arrive at the conclusion that Bernie Sanders looks at the constitution and revolution as see only racism?

As far as the second thing... well, I mean, I guess that's a matter for history, though I'm a little confused as to how one might consider that... not racial progress?

 

[dust1n]

He didn't say anything about racism being the only founding principle...

True.
But then I don't claim that he did.

"He looks at our Constution & our revolution, & sees only racism."

Perhaps that's the reason for the misunderstanding.

 

[Revoltingest]

"SANDERS: I hope that every person in this room today understands that it is unacceptable to judge people, discriminate against people based on the color of their skin. And I will also say, that as a nation — the truth is a nation that in many ways was created, and I’m sorry to have to say this from way back, on racist principles, that’s a fact. We have come a long way as a nation. Now I know, my guess is that probably not everybody here is an admirer or a voter for Barack Obama, but the point is that in 2008, this country took a huge step forward in voting for a candidate based on his ideas and not the color of his skin."

How does one arrive at the conclusion that Bernie Sanders looks at the constitution and revolution as see only racism?

As far as the second thing... well, I mean, I guess that's a matter for history, though I'm a little confused as to how one might consider that... not racial progress?

Racism is what he described, with nothing else mentioned.
There is so much to the founding of the country by revolution, but this was his focus.
Now note that I also understand that that is normal political pandering to a particular audience, one which relishes such feelings of victimhood & shame. So it's obvious that he'd have broader thoughts than what he expressed. As for progress, Obama's election wasn't progress. Advancements which would allow his election were already there when he was elected. But since his election, things appear to have even regressed with his public handling of things. To his credit, he is backing down on militarization of police now (recent news).

Don't let the above give you the impression that the above is significant criticism of Bernie.
He's just campaigning, & he's still far & away my favorite of the Democratic contenders.

 

[Revoltingest]

"He looks at our Constution & our revolution, & sees only racism."
Perhaps that's the reason for the misunderstanding.

Yes, I was unclear. Good call.
I intended "sees" to mean "expresses".
Bernie is no dummy, and campaign pandering will never show completeness of one's thoughts.