Are you a ''lukewarm'' atheist or theist?

[Deidre]

I posted this in my journal today, to get these feelings out somewhere...and thought I'd ask a more pointed question here, as I'd truly like to get some guidance/support/enlightenment, into how I've been feeling, lately.

As an atheist, I don't really pray per se, anymore...although, I sometimes will utter...''God, if you are really there, will you help me? Will you take this pain away that I'm feeling? Will you protect me from those who wish to harm me? Will you help my unbelief?''

I was surprised to pray the last sentence the other day...but I did. It seemed to just fall out of my mouth, as I audibly said it.

Does he hear me? Is he angry with me? Is he there at all? Is my grandmother in a place called heaven? I feel overwhelmed today with these thoughts swirling around in my mind, and wish there were definitive answers. So, I just wanted to vent this today...in hopes that it clears my own mind a bit, but to share the experience with those who might be struggling through some of the very same questions.

I can't help but wonder if after all of those years as a child being indoctrinated into the Christian faith...if I somehow can't see life without the light of theism shining upon it. If this is the case...does this make one a lukewarm atheist or theist?

According to the Bible, being 'lukewarm' is a precarious place to remain. How did I go from being confident in my atheism, to doubting it?

 

[Revoltingest]

According to the Bible, being 'lukewarm' is a precarious place to remain. How did I go from being confident in my atheism, to doubting it?

I can't answer your question, but I have one for you. Is there anything wrong with being "precarious", & shifting in your confidence in your belief (or lack)? I wouldn't worry about being right.

 

[Deidre]

I can't answer your question, but I have one for you. Is there anything wrong with being "precarious", & shifting in your confidence in your belief (or lack)? I wouldn't worry about being right.

I think that's it! I'm concerned about who is right/wrong...because that is how Christianity was presented to me...that it was the only path to righteousness. The only path to the 'truth.' When I deconverted from Christianity four years ago, I felt sure. It felt right, and I felt at peace. Looking back as to when I started feeling the void from my deconversion, it all started when my grandmother's health began to decline last year. And now she's gone, and I'm struggling with the whole idea of eternal life, and so on. I'm okay with wondering...and being in awe of the universe, without needing to know if a deity exists...but, at the same time...does this make me a lukewarm theist or atheist? If you have doubts as a Christian for example...does that make you a lukewarm Christian? Thank you for your comment, it's helpful.

 

[Revoltingest]

I see my perspective as nothing more than that. Truth? I don't have it. I don't find it accessible. There is only how things appear to me. This can change over time as I consider all the interesting things there are to learn & experience, but I expect to never arrive at THE TRUTH.

 

[Deidre]

I see my perspective as nothing more than that. Truth? I don't have it. I don't find it accessible. There is only how things appear to me. This can change over time as I consider all the interesting things there are to learn & experience, but I expect to never arrive at THE TRUTH.

Can I just say, I'm so grateful for your response this day. You have no idea how this has helped me. When you at one time in life, believed you 'had' truth, and then you didn't believe in that truth anymore...you sometimes wonder if there's another truth out there, and you go on a quest to find it. Atheism represents to me reality...which can never be questionable...because it's real. Objective reality is reality for everyone to see. 2+2 = 4, I don't believe it is...it just is. I like that aspect of atheism, the realness of things. But, how true that as you say...''there is only how things appear to me.''

I'm feeling a little better, thank you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I didn't expect to be of much help...so thanx for the acknowledgment.....I was useful for once!

 

[Adramelek]

First off, Deidre, if you're absolutely convinced that there is nothing else out there, no "divine entity" or that we're completely on our own. Then you are an atheist. Secondly, however, if in the back of your mind you have the idea that there might be something else out there, "divine entity", a more ancient self-consciousness and intelligence, then you could be considered an "agnostic" theist.

 

[Adramelek]

Further more I will say, is that Truth and being right or wrong is a tricky business. The only "Truth" that I am sure of is that I do exist as an individual Being, and I am pretty sure that you exist as an Individual Being Deidre. Someone once said that "the only Truth is that of Being".

 

[bobhikes]

There are plenty of studies that show that prayer is helpful. Also as part of the study of the mind I have learned that repeating phrases internal and especially externally(so you can hear yourself) effects you greatly.

I am agnostic with atheist beliefs I have 2 prayers(thoughts) I always repeat.

When I am down
I love my wife
I love my kids(by name)
I like my life.

It always seems to pick me up a bit.

When thinking about the world I say a small prayer

Peace, Health and Love

Again it always seem to give a pick me up.

There are a lot of scientific studies about the mind that support the fact that thoughts said aloud or thought internally have an impact on you. You trust yourself and as a result what you say and think. I try to reduce my negative thoughts and increase my positive thoughts every day.

 

[Laika]

I posted this in my journal today, to get these feelings out somewhere...and thought I'd ask a more pointed question here, as I'd truly like to get some guidance/support/enlightenment, into how I've been feeling, lately.

As an atheist, I don't really pray per se, anymore...although, I sometimes will utter...''God, if you are really there, will you help me? Will you take this pain away that I'm feeling? Will you protect me from those who wish to harm me? Will you help my unbelief?''

I was surprised to pray the last sentence the other day...but I did. It seemed to just fall out of my mouth, as I audibly said it.

Does he hear me? Is he angry with me? Is he there at all? Is my grandmother in a place called heaven? I feel overwhelmed today with these thoughts swirling around in my mind, and wish there were definitive answers. So, I just wanted to vent this today...in hopes that it clears my own mind a bit, but to share the experience with those who might be struggling through some of the very same questions.

I can't help but wonder if after all of those years as a child being indoctrinated into the Christian faith...if I somehow can't see life without the light of theism shining upon it. If this is the case...does this make one a lukewarm atheist or theist?

According to the Bible, being 'lukewarm' is a precarious place to remain. How did I go from being confident in my atheism, to doubting it?

I don't think that makes you a "lukewarm" atheist. Just honest. Strong convictions are hard to find and take time to develop.

I was a Theist when I was a kid because I went to primary school and in the assembly's we sung about 'god'. I was young and I believed in god simply because adults said he was there. I wasn't really in a position to question it, but I did think about it and I did pray. I was pretty lonely, so for a while god was the only person I really had to talk to. I still talk to myself most days when I'm on my own, but I'm pretty certain that I'm the only one that can hear it.

I am an atheist now largely because I think it is more logical. I've more or less assumed science can find explanations for pretty much anything and that god is therefore an illusion. There is no 'gap' for him to exist in. But that doesn't mean it is a strong conviction. The answer feels "incomplete" some how as the logical answer is not automatically the emotionally fulfilling one and there is a "tug of war" that goes on to try and find out what would feel comfortable. Conviction takes a certain amount of courage because you can never be absolutely sure you're right anyway as our perception and knowledge is always limited. The "truth" is rarely as absolute as right or wrong and learning to let go of the security of absolutes is a tricky thing to do.

So, when I've been desperate and- or to put it bluntly- not felt in control of how things were unfolding, I have prayed, but more as a way to find some reassurance that if someone is up there, they're probably on my side or have at least heard me out. I don't think that makes me a theist, but just someone who feels vulnerable- which is an entirely human thing to be.

 

[Deidre]

Further more I will say, is that Truth and being right or wrong is a tricky business. The only "Truth" that I am sure of is that I do exist as an individual Being, and I am pretty sure that you exist as an Individual Being Deidre. Someone once said that "the only Truth is that of Being".

This is beautiful-thank you. I don't know why I'm feeling out of sorts lately with all of this.

There are plenty of studies that show that prayer is helpful. Also as part of the study of the mind I have learned that repeating phrases internal and especially externally(so you can hear yourself) effects you greatly.

I am agnostic with atheist beliefs I have 2 prayers(thoughts) I always repeat.

When I am down
I love my wife
I love my kids(by name)
I like my life.

It always seems to pick me up a bit.

When thinking about the world I say a small prayer

Peace, Health and Love

Again it always seem to give a pick me up.

There are a lot of scientific studies about the mind that support the fact that thoughts said aloud or thought internally have an impact on you. You trust yourself and as a result what you say and think. I try to reduce my negative thoughts and increase my positive thoughts every day.

So, what you and others are saying is...I don't need to fit myself into a tidy little box? I can be many things, and still be unique, and true to me? For how I honestly feel, is I'm logically, an atheist. Atheism makes sense. I don't believe there are deities, at least those that have been presented in all of the various religions. There was once a Pope and I can't recall who it was now...but he said that everyone worships differently...everyone may be right, to the extent that he/she believes in a deity, as to what he/she understands one might be. I wish I could recall the Pope's name. I'll try to find more on that.

I really like your ideas here, and how you go about things. Thank you.

I don't think that makes you a "lukewarm" atheist. Just honest. Strong convictions are hard to find and take time to develop.

I was a Theist when I was a kid because I went to primary school and in the assembly's we sung about 'god'. I was young and I believed in god simply because adults said he was there. I wasn't really in a position to question it, but I did think about it and I did pray. I was pretty lonely, so for a while god was the only person I really had to talk to. I still talk to myself most days when I'm on my own, but I'm pretty certain that I'm the only one that can hear it.

I am an atheist now largely because I think it is more logical. I've more or less assumed science can find explanations for pretty much anything and that god is therefore an illusion. There is no 'gap' for him to exist in. But that doesn't mean it is a strong conviction. The answer feels "incomplete" some how as the logical answer is not automatically the emotionally fulfilling one and there is a "tug of war" that goes on to try and find out what would feel comfortable. Conviction takes a certain amount of courage because you can never be absolutely sure you're right anyway as our perception and knowledge is always limited. The "truth" is rarely as absolute as right or wrong and learning to let go of the security of absolutes is a tricky thing to do.

So, when I've been desperate and- or to put it bluntly- not felt in control of how things were unfolding, I have prayed, but more as a way to find some reassurance that if someone is up there, they're probably on my side or have at least heard me out. I don't think that makes me a theist, but just someone who feels vulnerable- which is an entirely human thing to be.

Bolded by me.

Yes! This rings true to me...thank you!
Maybe I should accept feeling vulnerable right now, instead of trying to fight it so hard. And instead of looking at it as something I need to ''correct.'' Maybe it is okay to seek reassurance, for maybe Something does exist. For all we know.

 

[Spiderman]

I think it is a good idea to use this time to become absorbed in what you love! Do not put mysteries in a box. Let mysteries be mysteries! The answer lies within you!

 

[Deidre]

First off, Deidre, if you're absolutely convinced that there is nothing else out there, no "divine entity" or that we're completely on our own. Then you are an atheist.

Well, isn't atheism mainly a position of belief, not necessarily of knowledge?

Secondly, however, if in the back of your mind you have the idea that there might be something else out there, "divine entity", a more ancient self-consciousness and intelligence, then you could be considered an "agnostic" theist.

or agnostic deist.
So many labels, so little time.
Thank you for this, it gets me to really think about things, as I've been 'stuck.' :/

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So many labels, so little time.

Yeah, there are all sorts of labels and semantic nuances, but it's not like you have to pigeon-hole yourself. I know that uncertainty can be quite uncomfortable at times, but if you just accept it in a kind way, well, it really is OK not to know.
Nobody really knows!

 

[Deidre]

I think it is a good idea to use this time to become absorbed in what you love! Do not put mysteries in a box. Let mysteries be mysteries! The answer lies within you!

But, how do we recognize objective truths when we see them? I'm of the belief that atheism is a beautiful thing because it relishes in the here and now. I can count on the present moment, for it is all we truly really have, when we think about it.

I've lost respect for religion, as it breeds fear and division. How can one have one foot in theism and one foot in atheism? Oh wait...that is how I feel right now...and I'm here to say, it's a confusing position to be in.

I know what you are trying to convey though, and for that, thank you.

 

[Spiderman]

Atheism can be a beautiful thing. It depends on what one does with it!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Oh wait...that is how I feel right now...and I'm here to say, it's a confusing position to be in.

If you feel confused, you feel confused, it's OK and not surprising in view of recent events. Give it time and things will become clearer, honest!

 

[Deidre]

Atheism can be a beautiful thing. It depends on what one does with it!

Maybe that is it, entirely. It is up to us how we live our lives, the quality of our lives. I can't expect any ideology to carry me to places that I'm not willing to walk, on my own.

If you feel confused, you feel confused, it's OK and not surprising in view of recent events. Give it time and things will become clearer, honest!

Okay...thank youuuu
I started feeling this sense of confusion, over this past year...and that was when my grandmother's health was declining. She was a devout Catholic, and didn't like that I considered myself an atheist, but she told me a few weeks ago...''you have to make your own way. No one can make your way for you.''

Maybe she had doubts, too. She never let on, if so. lol ^_^

 

[Deidre]

Yeah, there are all sorts of labels and semantic nuances, but it's not like you have to pigeon-hole yourself. I know that uncertainty can be quite uncomfortable at times, but if you just accept it in a kind way, well, it really is OK not to know.
Nobody really knows!

Yes, this. Semantic nuances.
I'm glad I posted this question to you all...for I'm not alone. But, there are some I meet in life who seem so sure of their faith. So positively sure.
Even if they may be wrong...to have that kind of conviction, is intriguing to me. You know?

I've always been unsure of so much in this life.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Can I just say, I'm so grateful for your response this day. You have no idea how this has helped me. When you at one time in life, believed you 'had' truth, and then you didn't believe in that truth anymore...you sometimes wonder if there's another truth out there, and you go on a quest to find it. Atheism represents to me reality...which can never be questionable...because it's real. Objective reality is reality for everyone to see. 2+2 = 4, I don't believe it is...it just is. I like that aspect of atheism, the realness of things. But, how true that as you say...''there is only how things appear to me.''

I'm feeling a little better, thank you.

That's right, atheism accomodates objective reality, and only objective reality. There is no accomodation provided for subjectivity, expression of emotion in atheism.

You must accept both subjectivity and objectivity.