As a Christian I found this very interesting. Wondered what you think.
10 Reasons for Man to Leave Religion Behind - Listverse
10 Reasons for Man to Leave Religion Behind - Listverse
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10 Reasons for Man to Leave Religion Behind
- Thread starter Youtellme
- Start date
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Personally, I'm of the mind that religion is something that humanity could (and should) leave behind. However, this list is pretty weak. It basically focuses on Christianity rather than religion in general, and most of its arguments are based on generalities rather than specifics. It's basically given a list of reasons why they, specifically, do not adopt a religion, but it isn't really giving any specific reasons as to why religion is harmful in and of itself. Just because something has caused harm (science can be argued to have done so) doesn't mean it is worth dropping altogether. So, while I agree with his points individually, I don't think he's made a compelling case for his actual argument.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Ditto.
Some of his "facts" about the Pagan mythology of the "messiah story" are completely wrong. Dionysus, for one, was not born of a virgin and that simplification completely missies the point of the nature of that god's birth. Wonder what else he got factually incorrect? His understanding of mythology in general is pretty pathetic. And equating a narrow subset of religion with actual religion is unforgivable. I'm profoundly sick of seeing it.
Then again you can't make a "decent" argument for leaving "religion" behind without making massive oversimplifications (such as pretending religion = narrow subset of Christianity) that fail to actually describe and account for the depth and breadth of religion and what it means to be religious.
Then again you can't make a "decent" argument for leaving "religion" behind without making massive oversimplifications (such as pretending religion = narrow subset of Christianity) that fail to actually describe and account for the depth and breadth of religion and what it means to be religious.
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Alceste
Vagabond
The first half had nothing to do with religion in general. It's all about why not to be a Christian fundamentalist. Most Christians are not fundamentalists, so the questionable historicity of the Bible (for example) is not something that would inspire them to abandon religion.
I agree with the last few points of a more philosophical nature though.
I agree with the last few points of a more philosophical nature though.
I call what I have a "faith". I am not sure that makes any difference to any of you, but it makes a difference to me. I mean, I do have a religion, but my faith is more important. I don't need such propaganda to tell what I should keep or what I should walk away from. Religion/faith is a personal decision- each person accepts or rejects or walks away from it on their own and not because someone told them to.
10 - dealt with that earlier, but essentially none of the so-called "Messiah" stories from elsewhere actually resemble the Jesus story in any significant way without twisting and changing them
9 - Mythology is the best part about religion, and doesn't need to be taken literally
8 - The Bible is not a microcosm for religion
7 - See 8
6 - Politics is always behind conflicts; religion only plays a part when it gets tangled up in said politics
5 - AFAIK, Judaism was the first religion to have 'favored' people, and only its derivatives have such ideas.
4 - Religion in itself doesn't play that big a role in a person's moral standards
3 - Science and religion used to get along just fine, and still can
2 - So what?
1 - No, it really doesn't. Not the ones I've followed.
9 - Mythology is the best part about religion, and doesn't need to be taken literally
8 - The Bible is not a microcosm for religion
7 - See 8
6 - Politics is always behind conflicts; religion only plays a part when it gets tangled up in said politics
5 - AFAIK, Judaism was the first religion to have 'favored' people, and only its derivatives have such ideas.
4 - Religion in itself doesn't play that big a role in a person's moral standards
3 - Science and religion used to get along just fine, and still can
2 - So what?
1 - No, it really doesn't. Not the ones I've followed.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Ten? Only one reason to leave religion behind is necessary or applicable: You don't need it anymore.
No need to overcomplicate it.
No need to overcomplicate it.
Firstly why does the article have a zoosk advert just below the title?
6 - Religion is hardly the only cause of conflicts and wars
5 - Not really a reason to abandon religion altogether, especially as one of them could be "correct"
4 - As above. Sure there are immoral religious people and moral non-religious people but the opposite is also true
6 - Religion is hardly the only cause of conflicts and wars
5 - Not really a reason to abandon religion altogether, especially as one of them could be "correct"
4 - As above. Sure there are immoral religious people and moral non-religious people but the opposite is also true
Thief
Rogue Theologian
When people wish to turn their backs on religion/faith/God etc., they have their own reasons- they really don't need anyone else to make the lists for them.
People (theists and atheists) nowadays appear not to have any belief that individual can think for themselves. I call that list "anti-proselytizing". Theists will proselytize reasons for people being theists and anti-theists will anti-proselytize why people should be atheists or at least not follow religions. A theist wouldn't proselytize to a theist and an atheist would not anti-proselytize to a atheist.
People (theists and atheists) nowadays appear not to have any belief that individual can think for themselves. I call that list "anti-proselytizing". Theists will proselytize reasons for people being theists and anti-theists will anti-proselytize why people should be atheists or at least not follow religions. A theist wouldn't proselytize to a theist and an atheist would not anti-proselytize to a atheist.
Alceste
Vagabond
When people wish to turn their backs on religion/faith/God etc., they have their own reasons- they really don't need anyone else to make the lists for them.
People (theists and atheists) nowadays appear not to have any belief that individual can think for themselves. I call that list "anti-proselytizing". Theists will proselytize reasons for people being theists and anti-theists will anti-proselytize why people should be atheists or at least not follow religions. A theist wouldn't proselytize to a theist and an atheist would not anti-proselytize to a atheist.
I think it's still interesting to talk to one another, and try to explain the reasons for our belief or lack of it. As long as we're also listening to each other too.
I don't particularly enjoy the constant ping pong game of "all religious people are deluded fantasists!" vs. "all atheists have no morals and will burn in hell!" but I do enjoy trying to understand how a faith-based perspective generally works. I hope that others enjoy trying to understand how my own evidence-based perspective generally works as well, since I also enjoy trying to explain it.
I think it's still interesting to talk to one another, and try to explain the reasons for our belief or lack of it. As long as we're also listening to each other too.
I don't particularly enjoy the constant ping pong game of "all religious people are deluded fantasists!" vs. "all atheists have no morals and will burn in hell!" but I do enjoy trying to understand how a faith-based perspective generally works. I hope that others enjoy trying to understand how my own evidence-based perspective generally works as well, since I also enjoy trying to explain it.
I agree as long as both parties are willing.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I agree as long as both parties are willing.
So, I guess I should probably stop abducting theists, tying them up in the basement and forcing them to debate religion with me...
Actually, nah, where's the fun without it?
Why bother going to the trouble of abducting them when you can just go to a church (or other religious building) and debate them there?
Alceste
Vagabond
Why bother going to the trouble of abducting them when you can just go to a church (or other religious building) and debate them there?
Heck, sometimes they come right to your house!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
When people wish to turn their backs on religion/faith/God etc., they have their own reasons- they really don't need anyone else to make the lists for them.
People (theists and atheists) nowadays appear not to have any belief that individual can think for themselves. I call that list "anti-proselytizing". Theists will proselytize reasons for people being theists and anti-theists will anti-proselytize why people should be atheists or at least not follow religions. A theist wouldn't proselytize to a theist and an atheist would not anti-proselytize to a atheist.
So everyone at the forum is doing what?