paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That is politics, and I don't discuss politics.
Regards
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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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Regards
Don't discuss politics?
Great!
Stick your head in the sand and ignore important news.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Further to Posts #2717, #2720 , #2722, and #2942 in response to OP's Post #1 I have to add:
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
For instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Imam Ibrahim Noonan at the entrance to the Maryam Mosque on the Old Monivea Road, Ballybrit, Galway. Photograph: Joe O’Shaughnessy
When Imam Ibrahim Noonan began celebrating the Qu’ran in a housing estate in Galway, his hope was that the temporary mosque in Wellpark would be replaced by a permanent structure.
Now, four years after foundation stones were laid on a site opposite Ballybrit racecourse, there’s a new minaret on the city skyline – marking the Ahmadiyya Muslim community’s first Irish house of prayer.
“There is none worthy of worship except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah,” reads the Arabic and English script carved into limestone above the oak doors of the Masjid Maryam ( Mosque of Mary).
“You can see the height gives a beauty to it, and there’s a bit of an echo as well,”says Imam Noonan, looking up at the dome which is also inscribed in Arabic: “There is no greater contentment than remembrance of God in the heart.”
Originally from Waterford, Imam Noonan was 23 when he converted to Islam while living in London. He and his family are now among 500 members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Ireland, and among almost 200 in Galway city and county – some of whom have been there since the late 1960s.
Founded by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1889, the Ahmadiyya faith has up to 200 million worshippers in 200 countries, mainly in several African states,Pakistan and Indonesia, with up to 30,000 in Britain and 15,000 in north America.
The community believes in non-violence and tolerance of other faiths, separation of religion and state, and “jihad” or “struggle” by the “pen rather than by the sword”.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...-build-first-irish-mosque-in-galway-1.1935635
Country:
Ireland
Ahmadiyya population : 500
Percentage (%) of Muslims : 1.2%
Percentage (%) of population:< 0.1 %
Estimate[25]:Lorna Siggins (September 20, 2014). "Persecuted Muslims build first Irish mosque in Galway". Irish Times. Retrieved September 20, 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
Ireland?
Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please
Regards
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
For instance:
- Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
Ireland [1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Imam Ibrahim Noonan at the entrance to the Maryam Mosque on the Old Monivea Road, Ballybrit, Galway. Photograph: Joe O’Shaughnessy
When Imam Ibrahim Noonan began celebrating the Qu’ran in a housing estate in Galway, his hope was that the temporary mosque in Wellpark would be replaced by a permanent structure.
Now, four years after foundation stones were laid on a site opposite Ballybrit racecourse, there’s a new minaret on the city skyline – marking the Ahmadiyya Muslim community’s first Irish house of prayer.
“There is none worthy of worship except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah,” reads the Arabic and English script carved into limestone above the oak doors of the Masjid Maryam ( Mosque of Mary).
“You can see the height gives a beauty to it, and there’s a bit of an echo as well,”says Imam Noonan, looking up at the dome which is also inscribed in Arabic: “There is no greater contentment than remembrance of God in the heart.”
Originally from Waterford, Imam Noonan was 23 when he converted to Islam while living in London. He and his family are now among 500 members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Ireland, and among almost 200 in Galway city and county – some of whom have been there since the late 1960s.
Founded by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1889, the Ahmadiyya faith has up to 200 million worshippers in 200 countries, mainly in several African states,Pakistan and Indonesia, with up to 30,000 in Britain and 15,000 in north America.
The community believes in non-violence and tolerance of other faiths, separation of religion and state, and “jihad” or “struggle” by the “pen rather than by the sword”.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...-build-first-irish-mosque-in-galway-1.1935635
Country:
Ahmadiyya population : 500
Percentage (%) of Muslims : 1.2%
Percentage (%) of population:< 0.1 %
Estimate[25]:Lorna Siggins (September 20, 2014). "Persecuted Muslims build first Irish mosque in Galway". Irish Times. Retrieved September 20, 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please
Regards
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Yet you wax poetic about how Muhammed interacted with other Arabs both when he was in Mecca and when he was spreading Islam. So clearly you do discuss politics.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you claimed that the Quran did this, yet it is only referred to in any specificity in the Hadith. So, don't you think it is inaccurate to make your initial claim, taking the Quran as is without including the Hadith as a part of it? I mean, isn't it true that not all Muslims even treat that Hadith as valid?
gnostic
The Lost One
Muhammad was a bloody politician when arrived in Medina and when he returned to Mecca.
He tried to rule both cities, telling people what they should do. Muhammad tried to mix religion with politics, since he began preaching.
For paarsurrey to deny involvement of religion in politics is simply paarsurrey in another of his episode of self-denial.
Quite frankly, I am quite sick of paarsurrey with all his unsubstantiated claims and with all his stupid wiki articles that he doesn't even bother to read, let alone understand.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
#3283
One is simply wrong.
Ahmadiyya never caused any violence in Indonesia:
The Thinker: Open or Closed?
Elaine Pearson | November 18, 2011
“Now we are vilified,” an Ahmadiyah imam told me last week at a mosque outside Jakarta that is threatened with closure. This is not the Indonesia that US President Barack Obama described last year on his visit to Jakarta, when he said, “Even as this land of my youth has changed in so many ways, those things that I learned to love about Indonesia — that spirit of tolerance that is written into your Constitution, symbolized in mosques and churches and temples standing alongside each other, that spirit that’s embodied in your people — that still lives on.”
In Bali this week, Obama should urge President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to protect the rights of religious minorities and take urgent steps to protect religious freedom.
Religious tolerance in Indonesia is in danger. There has been a surge in deadly sectarian attacks against religious communities and dozens of mosques and churches have been forced to close. In the first nine months of 2011, the Setara Institute, which monitors religious freedom in Indonesia, documented 184 incidents of religious violence — a higher rate than the annual average of 204 such attacks over the last four years. About 80 percent of these attacks took place on Java, which is predominantly Sunni Muslim, and targeted Christians, Shia Muslims, Bahai, and the Ahmadiyah, who consider themselves Muslim but whom many Muslims consider heretics.
As Obama said, religious freedom is protected under the nation’s Constitution. But as freedom of expression in Indonesia has grown since the fall of Suharto in 1998, so has intolerance and violence. Instead of protecting minorities, the government has promoted and enforced discrimination.
The Ahmadiyah mosque I visited last week in the Jakarta suburb of Bekasi is facing increasing pressure to close. The imam told me: “We’ve been here for 22 years. We have never faced these problems before. We are a part of this community.” The imam showed me threatening SMS messages warning him of violence if the mosque doesn’t close.
Indonesia’s national Ahmadiyah association, Jemaat Ahmadiyah, estimates that at least 30 Ahmadiyah mosques have been closed in recent years. In 2008 the national government passed a decree that prohibits the Ahmadiyah from practicing their faith. So far 16 provinces and regencies have followed suit, issuing local decrees banning the Ahmadiyah.
https://www.persecutionofahmadis.org/the-thinker-open-or-closed/
For full details. please access the above link
Regards
One is simply wrong.
Ahmadiyya never caused any violence in Indonesia:
The Thinker: Open or Closed?
Elaine Pearson | November 18, 2011
“Now we are vilified,” an Ahmadiyah imam told me last week at a mosque outside Jakarta that is threatened with closure. This is not the Indonesia that US President Barack Obama described last year on his visit to Jakarta, when he said, “Even as this land of my youth has changed in so many ways, those things that I learned to love about Indonesia — that spirit of tolerance that is written into your Constitution, symbolized in mosques and churches and temples standing alongside each other, that spirit that’s embodied in your people — that still lives on.”
In Bali this week, Obama should urge President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to protect the rights of religious minorities and take urgent steps to protect religious freedom.
Religious tolerance in Indonesia is in danger. There has been a surge in deadly sectarian attacks against religious communities and dozens of mosques and churches have been forced to close. In the first nine months of 2011, the Setara Institute, which monitors religious freedom in Indonesia, documented 184 incidents of religious violence — a higher rate than the annual average of 204 such attacks over the last four years. About 80 percent of these attacks took place on Java, which is predominantly Sunni Muslim, and targeted Christians, Shia Muslims, Bahai, and the Ahmadiyah, who consider themselves Muslim but whom many Muslims consider heretics.
As Obama said, religious freedom is protected under the nation’s Constitution. But as freedom of expression in Indonesia has grown since the fall of Suharto in 1998, so has intolerance and violence. Instead of protecting minorities, the government has promoted and enforced discrimination.
The Ahmadiyah mosque I visited last week in the Jakarta suburb of Bekasi is facing increasing pressure to close. The imam told me: “We’ve been here for 22 years. We have never faced these problems before. We are a part of this community.” The imam showed me threatening SMS messages warning him of violence if the mosque doesn’t close.
Indonesia’s national Ahmadiyah association, Jemaat Ahmadiyah, estimates that at least 30 Ahmadiyah mosques have been closed in recent years. In 2008 the national government passed a decree that prohibits the Ahmadiyah from practicing their faith. So far 16 provinces and regencies have followed suit, issuing local decrees banning the Ahmadiyah.
https://www.persecutionofahmadis.org/the-thinker-open-or-closed/
For full details. please access the above link
Regards
Last edited:
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
But actual Islam has caused violence elsewhere. The murder of non-religious bloggers in Bangladesh has been committed solely by Muslims who believe non-religious bloggers are mocking the religion by criticising Islamic influence on Bangladeshi law. The "Committee to Protect Islam" in 2013 demanded a blasphemy law to silence people who voiced dissenting opinions about Islam or any of its features.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/third-atheist-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh-1431439393
Once again it is Islam's inability to tolerate criticism or dissenting voices, and the resulting arrogance it injects into a lot of its followers that has caused these murders. Islam is the major (I'd venture to say 'only') factor behind Muslim madrassa students murdering secular & atheist Bangladeshi bloggers. Islam caused this violence.
Last edited:
Augustus
…
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Bangladesh
Lmao. Thanks for correcting me.
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Peaceful Spread of Islam in
Cuba: [2]
Cuba, a large Caribbean island nation under communist rule, is known for its white-sand beaches, rolling mountains, cigars and rum. Its colorful capital, Havana, features well-preserved Spanish colonial architecture within its 16th-century core, Old Havana, loomed over by the pre-revolutionary Capitolio. Salsa emanates from the city's dance clubs and cabaret shows are performed at the famed Tropicana.
According to a 2009 Pew Research Center report, there were then 9,000 Muslims in Cuba who constitute 0.1% of the population.[1] As of 2012, most of the nearly 10,000 Cuban Muslims were converts to the religion.[2]
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Cuba
What is it like to be a Muslim in Cuba? BBC News
Country/region:
Cuba
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:10,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :0.1
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Islam spread peacefully in
Cuba.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Peaceful Spread of Islam in
Cuba: [2]Cuba, a large Caribbean island nation under communist rule, is known for its white-sand beaches, rolling mountains, cigars and rum. Its colorful capital, Havana, features well-preserved Spanish colonial architecture within its 16th-century core, Old Havana, loomed over by the pre-revolutionary Capitolio. Salsa emanates from the city's dance clubs and cabaret shows are performed at the famed Tropicana.
According to a 2009 Pew Research Center report, there were then 9,000 Muslims in Cuba who constitute 0.1% of the population.[1] As of 2012, most of the nearly 10,000 Cuban Muslims were converts to the religion.[2]
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Cuba
Country/region:
CubaMuslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:10,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :0.1
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Islam spread peacefully in
Cuba.Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Ah, so the goalposts have been shifted away from Ahmadi Islam back to Islam more broadly. Again. Can we correctly assume that they'll stay there?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Post #3283
paarsurrey said: ↑
"Ahmadiyya"
Ahmadiyya don't cause any violence anywhere.
It is political extremism and reflects abuse of of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and is against their peaceful teachings. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad timely warned against it and explained the concept of blood-thirsty Mahdi of the extremist Muslims which has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad:
"This is what Muslims and Christians believe regarding Jesus (on whom be peace), and while it is a great error to call him, as the Christians do - a humble man - God, the beliefs of some of the followers of Islam, among whom is the sect called Ahl-i-Hadith also known as Wahabis, regarding a bloody Mahdi and a bloody Messiah, are affecting their morals very badly, so much so, that on account of their bad influence their dealings with other people are not based on honesty and good will, nor can they be truly and completely loyal to a non-Muslim Government. All reasonable men will realise that such a belief, namely, that non-Muslims should be subjected to coercion, that they should either forthwith become Muslims or be put to death, is open to the most serious objections. Every conscientious person will readily admit that before a man adequately realises the truth of a Faith, and before he has comprehended its beauties and its wholesome teachings, it is extremely undesirable to coerce him, on pain of death, to adopt that Faith. Far from contributing to the growth of that Faith, this would furnish the opponents with an opportunity to find fault with it. The ultimate result of a principle like this is that hearts become devoid of the quality of human sympathy and that mercy and justice, which are great human moral qualities, take leave of men, and instead, spitefulness and enmity tend to grow; there remain behind only the animal passions, wiping out all high moral qualities. But it would be noticed that such a teaching could not have proceeded from God, Who sends His punishment only after He has completed His argument."
"Jesus in India" published in 1908.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html
Hence, under the peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah/ Imam-Mahdi has started the movement of Reformation of Religion under the name of Ahmadiyya which is peaceful and never resort to any violence.
Regards
paarsurrey said: ↑
"Ahmadiyya"
Ahmadiyya don't cause any violence anywhere.
It is political extremism and reflects abuse of of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and is against their peaceful teachings. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad timely warned against it and explained the concept of blood-thirsty Mahdi of the extremist Muslims which has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad:
"This is what Muslims and Christians believe regarding Jesus (on whom be peace), and while it is a great error to call him, as the Christians do - a humble man - God, the beliefs of some of the followers of Islam, among whom is the sect called Ahl-i-Hadith also known as Wahabis, regarding a bloody Mahdi and a bloody Messiah, are affecting their morals very badly, so much so, that on account of their bad influence their dealings with other people are not based on honesty and good will, nor can they be truly and completely loyal to a non-Muslim Government. All reasonable men will realise that such a belief, namely, that non-Muslims should be subjected to coercion, that they should either forthwith become Muslims or be put to death, is open to the most serious objections. Every conscientious person will readily admit that before a man adequately realises the truth of a Faith, and before he has comprehended its beauties and its wholesome teachings, it is extremely undesirable to coerce him, on pain of death, to adopt that Faith. Far from contributing to the growth of that Faith, this would furnish the opponents with an opportunity to find fault with it. The ultimate result of a principle like this is that hearts become devoid of the quality of human sympathy and that mercy and justice, which are great human moral qualities, take leave of men, and instead, spitefulness and enmity tend to grow; there remain behind only the animal passions, wiping out all high moral qualities. But it would be noticed that such a teaching could not have proceeded from God, Who sends His punishment only after He has completed His argument."
"Jesus in India" published in 1908.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html
Hence, under the peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah/ Imam-Mahdi has started the movement of Reformation of Religion under the name of Ahmadiyya which is peaceful and never resort to any violence.
Regards
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Spread of Islam in
Croatia: [3]
Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28%Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]
Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Islam is spreading in Croatia, peacefully. Right?
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
#3303 #3330
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Spread of Islam in
Croatia: [3]Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28%Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]
Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Islam is spreading in Croatia, peacefully. Right?
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
#3303 #3330
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
Spread of Islam started when Muhammad was chosen by G-d as a messenger/prophet for guidance to the whole world.
It is very rational to start from the above origin. Who were the first converts to Islam? What sword was used to convince them?Does one know?
Regards
#3322
Spread of Islam started when Muhammad was chosen by G-d as a messenger/prophet for guidance to the whole world.
It is very rational to start from the above origin. Who were the first converts to Islam? What sword was used to convince them?Does one know?
There were no Jews in Mecca who were converted to Islam forcibly. Right?
Regards
#3322
gnostic
The Lost One
You still can't bring yourself into looking at Muhammad's life when he was living in Medina, can you? Right?
Was Muhammad not a prophet, when he was living in Medina (623 - 630)?
Was Muhammad not a prophet when he was on his deathbed (632)?
At that time, Jews were living in mostly in Medina - 3 tribes: the Banu Qaynaqa, Banu Nadir and the Banu Qurayza.
You are right, that Muhammad didn't force any Jew in Mecca to convert before he left Mecca in 622. But ever since he arrived in Medina, he caused troubles, because Muhammad is a petty and vindicated man, when they rejected him as a prophet.
His biased was clear when he had the Banu Qaynaqa expel from their homes in Medina (624) and a bloodthirsty tyrant when he let the men of Banu Qurayza were beheaded in 630, except for the few that converted to Islam.
And he did force the Arab town of Ta'if, at the 2nd siege, in 630. Clearly, you would ignore Ta'if, because you have never addressed any point on Ta'if.
The only reason why I keep bringing up Muhammad's time in Medina, because you won't directly address any of the issues I bring up. You always try to redirect my attention, to Mecca in 610 - 622, when Muhammad had no political or military powers. But he did gain these powers in Medina, and clearly the powers had corrupted him; Muhammad lost his innocence by the time he reached Medina, because he was no longer a peace-loving man.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
To correctly understand Muhammad's life and as to what happened in Medina one must know what happened at Mecca.
Regards
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Oddly, Jesus Christ didn't go on murderous rampages to punish those who persecuted and opposed him.... Strange, eh? OK, ok... he had a bad day once while visiting a temple and flipped over a table....
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Jesus ministry was only of 3 years in Jerusalem. As per NT Jesus did command his apostles to sell their clothes* and by swords. Of course, these swords were not for cutting of apples.However Jesus' disciples betrayed him and did not stand with him in the hour of need, Jesus alone was put on the Cross.
*Luke 22:36 "And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.”
Regards
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
hahahahahahahaha
- Status