Do entanglement and nonlocality imply that everything is interdependent and interconnected?

[Reflex]

The divine, like fairy farts, is always a possibility in the realm of the unknown and undetectable.

The smell is an undeniable experience; it's a matter of interpretation.

 

[gnostic]

So, because some people might get some allegedly erroneous “mystical” notion about something, the better thing is to just deny or at least not speak of the interconnectedness of empirical reality at its most fundamental level? It’s better to just pretend the truth of those unequivocally erroneous ideas of naïve realism/materialism? Is that the gist of what I’m reading here from some quarters?

What "reality"?

Nothing about mysticism define reality. It is nothing more than leap of faith and wishful thinking. The "truth" is no better than revealed religion, because the leap is just as blind, and they twist the truth to whatever mystics wish for.

Nothing in mysticism relate to QM, and trying to combine the two, only showed that the mystics don't understand QM.

 

[Reflex]

How much sense does that make? One of major contributors to QM said "The mechanism demands a mysticism and another physicist wrote a book by the same title. Are we to believe they lied or that you know better?

 

[prometheus11]

How much sense does that make? One of major contributors to QM said "The mechanism demands a mysticism and another physicist wrote a book by the same title. Are we to believe they lied or that you know better?

That's their perception. It's not science. Even they would tell you that. That it's not accepted by the scientific method should tell you something.

There are no methods to test for and prove "mysticism." There are no measurements that are repeatedly detectable like with electromagnetism, dark energy, or gravity. It's pure speculation.

 

[Gambit]

That's their perception. It's not science. Even they would tell you that. That it's not accepted by the scientific method should tell you something.

True, but the fact still remains that many of the founders of QM are guilty of quantum mysticism.

Quantum mysticism first appeared in Germany during the 1920s when some of the leading quantum physicists, such as Erwin Schrödinger and Werner Heisenberg, leaned toward mystical interpretations of their theories. (source: Wikipedia: Quantum mysticism)

There are no methods to test for and prove "mysticism." There are no measurements that are repeatedly detectable like with electromagnetism, dark energy, or gravity. It's pure speculation.

It should also be noted that we have no objective or scientific evidence to establish the presence of consciousness.

By the way, dark matter/dark energy has never been directly detectable.

 

[Reflex]

That's their perception. It's not science. Even they would tell you that. That it's not accepted by the scientific method should tell you something.

There are no methods to test for and prove "mysticism." There are no measurements that are repeatedly detectable like with electromagnetism, dark energy, or gravity. It's pure speculation.

Scientism is untenable.

 

[prometheus11]

True, but the fact still remains that many of the founders of QM are guilty of quantum mysticism.





It should also be noted that we have no objective or scientific evidence to establish the presence of consciousness.

By the way, dark matter/dark energy has never been directly detectable.

Gravity isn't directly detected.

Consciousness is a mystery. I'm thinking it's due to fairy farts.

And it's only two or three QM scientists that are positing untestable woo about QM. who cares?

 

[prometheus11]

Scientism is untenable.

That's why you're using a computer and modern technology? Hypocrite.

 

[Reflex]

That's why you're using a computer and modern technology? Hypocrite.

LOL! You're a real kick, you know that? Since you are so insistent on clinging to your security blanket, I don't dare refer you to materials that might have the traumatic effect of taking it away.

And it's only two or three QM scientists that are positing untestable woo about QM. who cares?

You REALLY need to go to your local library or visit book stores more often!

 

[Gambit]

Gravity isn't directly detected.

Okay. Then you're wrong on several accounts. Neither dark matter/dark energy nor gravity are directly detectable.

Consciousness is a mystery. I'm thinking it's due to fairy farts.

We have no objective or scientific evidence that consciousness even exists. And since you have argued that the only valid evidence for establishing the existence of anything is objective or scientific evidence, you are proposing we should reject the reality of consciousness.

And it's only two or three QM scientists that are positing untestable woo about QM. who cares?

It's only some of the most prominent physicists since the inception of quantum mechanics - Erwin Schrodinger, Werner Heisenberg, Wolfgang Pauli, Eugene Wigner, David Bohm, John Archibald Wheeler, Freeman Dyson.

 

[prometheus11]

I've never did otherwise about gravity or dark energy or consciousness.

But if you're this nasty in your dealings with people who agree with you, then forget it.

 

[prometheus11]

LOL! You're a real kick, you know that? Since you are so insistent on clinging to your security blanket, I don't dare refer you to materials that might have the traumatic effect of taking it away.


You REALLY need to go to your local library or visit book stores more often!

Wow. So mature.

 

[prometheus11]

Okay. Then you're wrong on several accounts. Neither dark matter/dark energy nor gravity are directly detectable.



We have no objective or scientific evidence that consciousness even exists. And since you have argued that the only valid evidence for establishing the existence of anything is objective or scientific evidence, you are proposing we should reject the reality of consciousness.



It's only some of the most prominent physicists since the inception of quantum mechanics - Erwin Schrodinger, Werner Heisenberg, Wolfgang Pauli, Eugene Wigner, David Bohm, John Archibald Wheeler, Freeman Dyson.

No. You need to look at what those scientists are actually saying, not what you wish they were saying.

 

[prometheus11]

Dark energy and gravity are both names given to forces that must exist in order to push matter around the way we see it moving. Kind of like knowing the wind is blowing when you see leaves moving in your yard but you can't feel it inside your house looking out the window at the leaves.

 

[Gambit]

No. You need to look at what those scientists are actually saying, not what you wish they were saying.

Here's what they're actually saying:

- It appears that mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent inherent in every electron." (source: pg. 297 "Infinite in All Directions" by Freeman Dyson)

"Even an electron has at least a rudimentary mental pole, respresented mathematically by the quantum potential." (source: pg. 387 "The Undivided Universe: An Ontological Interpretation of Quantum Theory" by David Bohm and B.J. Hiley)

- "When the province of physical theory was extended to encompass microscopic phenomena through the creation of quantum mechanics, the concept of consciousness came to the fore again: It was not possible to formulate the laws of quantum mechanics in a fully consistent way without reference to the consciousness." - Eugene Wigner

 

[prometheus11]

Here's what they're actually saying:

Correct. None of that refers to mysticism. Those are possibilities allowed in QM.

Wanting mysticism or spirituality to be present doesn't mean it is.

 

[Gambit]

Correct. None of that refers to mysticism. Those are possibilities allowed in QM.

It just implies panpsychism.

 

[prometheus11]

It just implies panpsychism.

Nope. It merely allows that view.

 

[Gambit]

Nope. It merely allows that view.

Don't you think it's about time you concede the point?

 

[prometheus11]

Don't you think it's about time you concede the point?

Nope. You have failed to demonstrate its plausibility.

What you have clearly demonstrated is that QM allows for speculations of woo. But that was a given and previously established.