Ahmadis - Muslims or not?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I came across the following blog which talked about the Muslim world's reaction to the fire at the Ahmadi mosque in London.

https://iramramzan.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/when-is-a-mosque-not-a-mosque-when-its-an-ahmadi-mosque/

The reaction of individual Muslims and organisations that claim to speak for all who identify as Muslim seems to indicate an underlying sectarian attitude - that Ahmadis are not Muslims even if they identify as such. I've known that Ahmadis are looked down upon as not-true Muslims by others of the faith but I've never encountered it before so I'd like to hear from both sides of the divide.

Ahmadis - do you consider yourselves Muslims and why?

Non-Ahmadi Muslims - do you consider Ahmadis to be Muslims or non-Muslims? Why?

 

[Godobeyer]

I came across the following blog which talked about the Muslim world's reaction to the fire at the Ahmadi mosque in London.

https://iramramzan.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/when-is-a-mosque-not-a-mosque-when-its-an-ahmadi-mosque/

The reaction of individual Muslims and organisations that claim to speak for all who identify as Muslim seems to indicate an underlying sectarian attitude - that Ahmadis are not Muslims even if they identify as such. I've known that Ahmadis are looked down upon as not-true Muslims by others of the faith but I've never encountered it before so I'd like to hear from both sides of the divide.

Ahmadis - do you consider yourselves Muslims and why?

Non-Ahmadi Muslims - do you consider Ahmadis to be Muslims or non-Muslims? Why?

Since they make Shahad they are Muslims without doubt , we may disagree in some sensitive details .

so God said in Quran 4:48 :
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.


IF some Muslims consider them are sinners .all up only to God

God best known .

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I would say it wouldn't matter what other Muslims think. Saying Ahmadis aren't Muslims is like Catholics insisting that Protestants aren't "real Christians". It's a branch of Islam, like Sufism or Shia. It doesn't mean it's a fake version of Islam, just another version of it.

 

[Jumi]

Yes, they are Muslim in my mind.

 

[FearGod]

I came across the following blog which talked about the Muslim world's reaction to the fire at the Ahmadi mosque in London.

https://iramramzan.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/when-is-a-mosque-not-a-mosque-when-its-an-ahmadi-mosque/

The reaction of individual Muslims and organisations that claim to speak for all who identify as Muslim seems to indicate an underlying sectarian attitude - that Ahmadis are not Muslims even if they identify as such. I've known that Ahmadis are looked down upon as not-true Muslims by others of the faith but I've never encountered it before so I'd like to hear from both sides of the divide.

Ahmadis - do you consider yourselves Muslims and why?

Non-Ahmadi Muslims - do you consider Ahmadis to be Muslims or non-Muslims? Why?

No, i don't believe they're.

We don't believe that Ahmadi is the messiah or the promised one , he's regarded as a fake prophet.

 

[Sees]

For sure they are Muslim. It's similar to the way a lot of Christians think of Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses as non-Christian but a Christian-like cult - except with much more destroyed personal property and mosques, harassment, threats, beatings, torture, murder, disfigured corpses, government legislation, etc. to go along with the disagreements.

Quite sad what they have gone through and how it will likely get even worse.

I don't personally understand the deep desire to be counted amongst those who have a burning hatred for you...that do those horrible things to you because of doctrinal disputes. It's perplexing.

 

[morphesium]

I am not a Muslim, and I voted yes.

Personally, I believe they are far better than non ahmadi- Muslims.

 

[columbus]

Personally, I believe they are far better than non ahmadi- Muslims.

Why?
It seems like the more I learn about Islam the less Muslims seem to match it, or care about it.
What about Ahmadi is better?
Tom

 

[Smart_Guy]

Whoever gives the testimony that the Abrahamic God (Allah in Arabic, if you don't know) is the only god and Muhammad is his messenger and slave, is a Muslim. I vote yes.

 

[Pastek]

They are not really muslims for me as they have some specific beliefs (concerning Jesus and their other prophet) that were never part of the religion.

They believe (i think) in the majority of what we believe and seem to have in general the same religious obligations than us.
I rejoin Smart Guy concerning the testimony of faith which is enought to be considerated a muslim. They believe in Allah, in the Quran, for the rest it's God the only Judge.
If they say they are muslims i won't say no, even if don't really believe they are.

I guess it's like some christians who don't considerate the Mormons or JW as christians even if the base is the same.

I didn't vote because for me it's 50/50.

 

[paarsurrey]

I just add for information of my friends here that Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and is the fastest spreading religious community in the world. It has peacefully spread in about 206 countries/territories of the world. In about 150 years Ahmadiyya are already more than the Zoroastrians and perhaps the Judaism people, no disrespect intended to anybody. I want to add that if one is truthful one would increase despite the opposition,persecution and killings done by the opponents.

One may like to read Ahmadiyya by country from the link below in this connection:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country
Regards

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

They are regarded as disbelievers. And this is the ijmah/consensus of all muslim scholars about Ahmadis. So we believe Ahmadism is a religion that is not islam, just like Judaism, Christianity and Bahaism are different religions.

 

[paarsurrey]

They are regarded as disbelievers. And this is the ijmah/consensus of all muslim scholars about Ahmadis. So we believe Ahmadism is a religion that is not islam, just like Judaism, Christianity and Bahaism are different religions.

On what basis mentioned in Quran? Please
Regards

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

On what basis mentioned in Quran? Please
Regards

They reject Allah's words that Jesus did not die. That is the first disbelief.
Second disbelief is their belief in new prophet after Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
Clearly Allah swt says Muhammad pbuh is the seal of Prophets meaning there wont be NEW prophet after him. Allah's Servant Jesus's return to world doesnt make Jesus PBUH into New prophet, he already appeared before prophet Muhammad pbuh.


If only they believed that Mirza Ghulam was just a reformer and scholar they & and he would be regarded as muslims, not that he is both Jesus, Mahdi and a new prophet.

 

[paarsurrey]

They reject Allah's words that Jesus did not die. That is the first disbelief.
Second disbelief is their belief in new prophet after Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
Clearly Allah swt says Muhammad pbuh is the seal of Prophets meaning there wont be NEW prophet after him. Allah's Servant Jesus's return to world doesnt make Jesus PBUH into New prophet, he already appeared before prophet Muhammad pbuh.
If only they believed that Mirza Ghulam was just a reformer and scholar they & and he would be regarded as muslims, not that he is both Jesus, Mahdi and a new prophet.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad never claimed that he was a new prophet of G-d?
Kindly quote from him to prove your point. Please
Regards

 

[Shad]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad never claimed that he was a new prophet of G-d?
Kindly quote from him to prove your point. Please
Regards

He redefines prophet so that he can be one without violating "no other prophet after me" as per the Quran. From your own website.

http://www.alislam.org/books/misunderstandingremoved.html

 

[McBell]

It used to be that Muslims merely put "Muslim" for their religion.
Now they are specifying which version of Muslim they are.

 

[sun rise]

Whoever gives the testimony that the Abrahamic God (Allah in Arabic, if you don't know) is the only god and Muhammad is his messenger and slave, is a Muslim. I vote yes.

And you are in a good position to make that statement. As a non-Muslim I've read sites like http://www.muslim.org/sa-case/evidence/s01.htm which say the same thing taken from the Quran, Hadith and other sources.

 

[gnostic]

I would say it wouldn't matter what other Muslims think. Saying Ahmadis aren't Muslims is like Catholics insisting that Protestants aren't "real Christians". It's a branch of Islam, like Sufism or Shia. It doesn't mean it's a fake version of Islam, just another version of it.

True, but for Mirza to elevate himself the new or the 2nd "messiah", don't sit well among non-Ahmadi Muslims. I think his self-proclamation has only made the Ahmadis targets for persecution and violence.

Conservative views, no matter what religious, political or social background, will naturally feel threatened, and tragically and sadly they will lead to some, to resort to violence to answer the challenge. In general conservatives hated reformers.

 

[Sees]

True, but for Mirza to elevate himself the new or the 2nd "messiah", don't sit well among non-Ahmadi Muslims. I think his self-proclamation has only made the Ahmadis targets for persecution and violence.

Conservative views, no matter what religious, political or social background, will naturally feel threatened, and tragically and sadly they will lead to some, to resort to violence to answer the challenge. In general conservatives hated reformers.

I agree. So many differences, whether big/important or small/trivial, are taken as a threat to Islam itself - it is the biggest problem when it comes to Islamic culture dealing with others. It spawns pretty much every issue. Only a very liberal type of reformed Islam is truly reconcilable with other modern cultures...which makes me want to support Ahmadi Muslims, even though it's unlikely to be a fruitful effort.