• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

People hatin' on Dawkins

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Why is it so much criticism leveled against him seem to be about tone and never seem to really line up with what he really says? It's like his infamy causes people's brains to shut down and not think at all, and instead read too much into things they think he's saying but really isn't. They all seem threatened by his criticism and call him things like "ignorant" and "nasty". They can't separate criticism of religion from supposed bigotry. And that's really, really sad because the guy has some pretty good insights.

Maybe it has something to do with his British accent lol
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Or maybe it is because he is an excellent debater( as was Christopher Hitchens).

Wasn't he British too? Anyways, my joke/point with that was the 'arrogant British guy' stereotype. But generally speaking, when someone has nothing to argue with, ya, they attack their tone or things they "think" they said

Also Hitchens was much more harsh in his criticism from what I can tell, Dawkins always stuck to specific things instead of being more general in his criticism from what I can tell particularly when it conflicts with science, but I've never been that much of a fan of Hitchens so maybe I've not seen him speak enough to have much of an opinion.
 

lunakilo

Well-Known Member
Why is it so much criticism leveled against him seem to be about tone and never seem to really line up with what he really says? It's like his infamy causes people's brains to shut down and not think at all, and instead read too much into things they think he's saying but really isn't. They all seem threatened by his criticism and call him things like "ignorant" and "nasty". They can't separate criticism of religion from supposed bigotry. And that's really, really sad because the guy has some pretty good insights.

Maybe it has something to do with his British accent lol
I think it mostly has to do with the way Dawkins says things, i.e. straight to peoples faces.

There are many ways to tell people that you disagree with them or think that what they say is silly.
Some people have the ability to wrap their words up in nice packaging and give them to people en a nice way.
Dawkins is not one of them :)

As Niel deGrasse Tyson so nicely said:
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think it mostly has to do with the way Dawkins says things, i.e. straight to peoples faces.

There are many ways to tell people that you disagree with them or think that what they say is silly.
Some people have the ability to wrap their words up in nice packaging and give them to people en a nice way.
Dawkins is not one of them :)

As Niel deGrasse Tyson so nicely said:

I couldn't agree with this more. He is a smart and articulate man but, so far as I know, does not have an ability to connect with religious believers and comes accross as impatient for the rest of the world to catch up and share his point of view. He does however, get unfair criticism for being in the spot light as the public face of atheism, as I would gather from a series of akward and politically incorrect gaffs on twitter. There would of course always be a group that would be hostile to him and so in fairness, it's not wholly surprising he is that way. it is a shame though as I think believers miss out on having a mutually benifitial dialogue with sceptics for fear of them being so blunt.
 
As Niel deGrasse Tyson so nicely said

I tend to put it more bluntly "You're never going to persuade anyone that thinks you're a d!ck"

He is a smart and articulate man but, so far as I know, does not have an ability to connect with religious believers and comes accross as impatient for the rest of the world to catch up and share his point of view.

He championed the idea that those who share a naturalistic view of the world should be termed 'brights'. This has to be the worst attempt 'branding' I can imagine as it simply can't escape the connotations that everybody who disagrees with this view is an idiot.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
He gets a surprising amount of hate.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
When the content of one's arguments cannot be rationally debated against and they don't care about being politic, it's often a recipe for their opponents becoming overly emotional and personal.

Plenty of his arguments can be rationally debated against though. His arguments regarding the non-existence of god are sound, but what he extrapolates off this in terms of his anti-theism is often highly questionable.

He is a rank average literary polemicist rather than a scientist in regards to his anti-theism.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Plenty of his arguments can be rationally debated against though. His arguments regarding the non-existence of god are sound, but what he extrapolates off this in terms of his anti-theism is often highly questionable.

He is a rank average literary polemicist rather than a scientist in regards to his anti-theism.

Yeah, I've heard countless variations of such types of personal attacks leveled against him, but never any logical analysis of actual examples of his arguments. They may exist - I've just never seen them.
 
Yeah, I've heard countless variations of such types of personal attacks leveled against him, but never any logical analysis of actual examples of his arguments. They may exist - I've just never seen them.

Considering a religious upbringing to be a form of child abuse, for example.

When you mock people for their 'stupidity' for being religious and then present such an illogical argument, then people might rightly consider you a bit of a condescending hypocrite.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
As one who is involved with Judaism, I have been told more times that I could ever count how many times I've been told that I'm going to hell, God doesn't love me or even listen to my prayers, and that the only way I can be "saved" is to convert. Yes, Dawkins can be over-the-top, no doubt, and I do not justify that approach, but please do realize that there are a great many theists who do exactly the same if not worse, and some of them can be found right here at RF.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Considering a religious upbringing to be a form of child abuse, for example.

The actual context of his argument was that religious indoctrination while disallowing questioning of the those teachings (particularly distressing teachings such as burning in hell for eternity), was child abuse. Not that I necessarily agree with this completely. However, usually attacks leveled at him turn into mischaracterizations of his arguments, such as your blanket claim that he considers religious upbringing to be a form of child abuse. I just tend to find that once you actually do some digging, most claims about him, or what he's said, are exaggerated, out-of-context, or distorted.
 
The actual context of his argument was that religious indoctrination while disallowing questioning of the those teachings (particularly distressing teachings such as burning in hell for eternity), was child abuse. Not that I necessarily agree with this completely. However, usually attacks leveled at him turn into mischaracterizations of his arguments, such as your blanket claim that he considers religious upbringing to be a form of child abuse. I just tend to find that once you actually do some digging, most claims about him, or what he's said, are exaggerated, out-of-context, or distorted.

I'm very familiar with his works, and I don't disagree with them because he's attacking my religion because I'm equally as atheistic as he is. I just think he is a bit of a cock, and, honestly, a bit ignorant.

To quote from the God Delusion: "Once, in the question time after a lecture in Dublin, I was asked what I thought about the widely publicized cases of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in Ireland. I replied that, horrible as sexual abuse no doubt was, the damage was arguably less than the long-term psychological damage inflicted by bringing the child up Catholic in the first place."

Now he does go on to qualify this statement by saying someone who was fondled by a priest was more concerned about her protestant friend dying and going to hell, but it is still a pretty stupid statement to make in the first place.

It also doesn't take into account the idea that religious beliefs could actually also be beneficial to children. Why focus on hell only, when heaven must console many children whose loved ones died?

"No dear, granny isn't in heaven, we burned her in a big oven."

There are a reasonable number of people who are critical of him because we do understand what he is arguing, not because we don't.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
I don't much like him. He's awfully arrogant and condescending. I feel like he's a bit of an inside-the-box thinker. There's not much room there for explorations outside his own world-view. And it seems to me that whenever he argues against religion, it's mostly directed against Abrahamic religions, and doesn't really apply to others as well.

In short, he's an ***. Give me Tyson any day. At least he comes across a friendly, patient man, who actually cares about teaching someone something they mat not have considered before. Vs "you're an idiot, i'm right"
 
Top