If your definition of an atheist is a person who believes gods don't exist, if a person told you "I am an atheist but I don't believe gods don't exist, I am just not a theist" would you tell him that he's not an atheist? You would have to wouldn't you, otherwise you would have changed your definition...
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What do people think "atheist" means?
- Thread starter ArtieE
- Start date
Theism = belief in the existence of gods
a- ="not, without"
Atheism = without belief in the existence of gods
not "belief that gods don't exist"
I suggest you use the definition American Atheists use.
"Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."
Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves."
"The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings."
http://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism?
LOL
My dictionary is totally modern. It's not even ten years old. don't care what Americans think. I'm British, I use a British dictionary. I've told you what it says. That's it.
Also, you said:
"Theism = belief in the existence of gods
a- ="not, without"
Atheism = without belief in the existence of gods
not "belief that gods don't exist""
How are these two definitions ANY different?
Oh, here is the definition from Noah Webster - an American dictionary:
atheism
Tweet
noun athe·ism \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
That's so modern it's from the internet.
atheism
Tweet
noun athe·ism \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
That's so modern it's from the internet.
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Seriously!?
I can't believe that I have to explain this...
One person can say "I don't believe gods exist but I don't believe they don't exist either. I'm undecided and don't know what to believe."
Another person can say "I have decided. I believe gods don't exist."
Notice any difference?
Augustus
…
I think you are a little bit confused about what you actually asked. What you actually asked has nothing to do with 'definitions'. As I said back in my first post 'In average conversation we don't try to be entirely logically consistent and objectively approach the conversation as a form of scientific or philosophical analysis.'
You are asking what meaning is communicated by the word atheist when used in normal conversation: "When a person tells you he/she is an atheist, what do you think that tells you?"
This is asking what subjective meaning is communicated, which is a process by which you construct a range of both denoted and connoted meaning from knowledge, experience, intertextual references, etc.
Language in practical everyday use is very different from crafting philosophically accurate language for normative purposes (and also from arguing on RF about concepts). I've already told you I'd make assumptions beyond the scope of the actual word. I'd assume what is true of most atheists I know, and revise my opinions later if evidence conflicted my initial assumption. That's what we do when we communicate.
I'm trying to be honest by acknowledging the irrational assumptions we make from language in everyday usage. We all do it, whether we realise it or not. Where I live I would also assume that the person was middle class and university educated, even though I have atheist friends who are neither. It just happens that most atheists in this society happen to share these characteristics, so, heuristically, it is beneficial for us to make such assumptions unless we have evidence to suggest they are wrong (which is why, for example, appearance would also affect my assumptions).
You don't aim for perfection, but best fit.
If you ask me 'what can you tell with 100% certainty if someone tells you they are an atheist' then I would say nothing. You could tell things with a very high degree of certainty, but not 100%. But you didn't ask that question so I gave you an accurate reply to the question you asked.
Why bother to create a thread about how people subjectively interpret a word then berate several posters for not subjectively interpreting it in the way you wish they had subjectively interpreted it?
One person can say "I don't believe gods exist but I don't believe they don't exist either. I'm undecided and don't know what to believe." <--- This isn't an Atheist.
The Free Dictionary defining disbelief:
atheism - a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/disbelief
LOL! Would you like to try to tell that to American Atheists and every other weak atheist!?
No it isn't. And if you don't understand that there's nothing more I can do.
Pretty much what Bunyip said. Theism and atheism are both rubbish terms that tell you nothing about anything.
Though, for the most part, I make the assumptions that: (1) they are atheistic with respect to the dominant understanding of god(s) in their over-culture, which is nearly always classical monotheism of the Abrahamic variety in the English-speaking Western world, (2) they consider themselves atheistic with respect to all understandings of god(s), yet base that identification on classical monotheist assumptions, which is neither representative of nor applicable to all theisms (3) they are not atheistic with respect to my gods except in the loosest sense of simply not using the word "god" to describe what I deify.
Though, for the most part, I make the assumptions that: (1) they are atheistic with respect to the dominant understanding of god(s) in their over-culture, which is nearly always classical monotheism of the Abrahamic variety in the English-speaking Western world, (2) they consider themselves atheistic with respect to all understandings of god(s), yet base that identification on classical monotheist assumptions, which is neither representative of nor applicable to all theisms (3) they are not atheistic with respect to my gods except in the loosest sense of simply not using the word "god" to describe what I deify.
LOL! Would you like to try to tell that to American Atheists and every other weak atheist!?
Yes you are.Then WHAT is the difference????
I am confused.
One person can say "I don't believe gods exist but I don't believe they don't exist either. I'm undecided and don't know what to believe."
Another person can say "I have decided. I believe gods don't exist."
If you don't understand that the first is a weak atheist and the second is a strong atheist and there's a difference between them and both are atheists then I give up.
No, I think that the first is not an atheist, owing to the qualifier "but I don't believe they [deities] don't exist either". This is not atheism, it's "I don't know". If you don't believe that deities don't exist, then you are rejecting a-theism, "without belief in God/s".
To call the first an atheist, even if weak, still makes no sense to me. I'd just call that person "undecided" at best.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
An atheist is a person who isn't a theist, i.e has no God belief.