Jury finally hears BOMBSHELL evidence against Trump

[McBell]

Partial AI generated transscript:

you know that they're trying to use to wiggle out of Trump's criminal responsibility for this um so uh what what Keith Davidson testified to is you know that he was engaged in you know this this hush money payment and covering these things up and then come election night or the next day when it looks like Donald Trump was going to win the election Keith Davidson said oh my God what did we do and the import of that is really twofold​

​

one they recognized the potentially dramatic damage they had done to the country by engaging in conduct that may have actually facilitated Donald Trump getting elected but the other important evidentiary take away and you need to sort of apply an inference to get there is when he said oh my God what did what did we do it's clear that Keith Davidson and the others involved in this scheme knew that these hush money payments were being made to impact the election not to try to conceal information from Melania or Donald Trump's family because you know they would not have have woken up on Election morning the day after the election realized Donald Trump won and said oh my God what did we do if this was all about Donald Trump not wanting Melania to learn about his dalliances right I mean if they if it was about Melania not finding out they would have been celebrating the fact that she continued not to know because it was successfully secreted but this was very clearly about the election and their comments on the day after the election are a direct Testament to that​

 

[Copernicus]

The video was taken before Hope Hicks's testimony, which delivered a similar bombshell. It is hard to see how the jury can muster up a reasonable doubt as to whether the payoff was intended to influence the election, but then I am reminded of so many arguments with Trump supporters over the past eight years. All it takes is one juror, and he walks.

Well, he is unlikely to get jail time anyway, except for contempt. He only faces the unlikely possibility of four years for the crimes, but a guilty verdict could lead to a suspended sentence. He might walk out of the courtroom as a newly minted felon. If that happens, how do you think it would impact the election?

 

[F1fan]

The video was taken before Hope Hicks's testimony, which delivered a similar bombshell. It is hard to see how the jury can muster up a reasonable doubt as to whether the payoff was intended to influence the election, but then I am reminded of so many arguments with Trump supporters over the past eight years. All it takes is one juror, and he walks.

Well, he is unlikely to get jail time anyway, except for contempt. He only faces the unlikely possibility of four years for the crimes, but a guilty verdict could lead to a suspended sentence. He might walk out of the courtroom as a newly minted felon. If that happens, how do you think it would impact the election?

Frankly this is so far before the election that if Trump gets a month in prison, or more likley, house arrest, it will some for of justice that will offset his corruption and fraud against the people of the USA, and they can't complain about the sentence. The problem is Trump will appeal. A conviction will be a conviction, but the appeal will cast doubt.

If there is one Trump holdout, well, that is the flaw in our system.

 

[Brickjectivity]

If that happens, how do you think it would impact the election?

If the reps want him then it won't change the election. The election is not about who runs, unless you already believe Trump is dangerous. Those who view Trump as dangerous are not going to be influenced by the court's judgment. They're already opposing Trump. Those who do not also will not. The case proceeds on its own and has little to no impact on the election. In my opinion. Its impact is on US justice and whether presidents can be tried...that sort of thing.

 

[Copernicus]

If the reps want him then it won't change the election. The election is not about who runs, unless you already believe Trump is dangerous. Those who view Trump as dangerous are not going to be influenced by the court's judgment. They're already opposing Trump. Those who do not also will not. The case proceeds on its own and has little to no impact on the election. In my opinion. Its impact is on US justice and whether presidents can be tried...that sort of thing.

But US presidential elections involve three large groups: Democrats, Republicans, Independents. Independents claim no party affiliation, although most seem to prefer one of the two major parties when they enter the voting booth. My own guess is that voting for a convicted felon won't deter a huge number of Republicans, but there will be some portion that find it difficult to vote for a convicted felon. I expect the greater impact to be among Independents, who may be more motivated to stay home, vote for some non-Trump candidate.

 

[Brickjectivity]

But US presidential elections involve three large groups: Democrats, Republicans, Independents. Independents claim no party affiliation, although most seem to prefer one of the two major parties when they enter the voting booth. My own guess is that voting for a convicted felon won't deter a huge number of Republicans, but there will be some portion that find it difficult to vote for a convicted felon. I expect the greater impact to be among Independents, who may be more motivated to stay home, vote for some non-Trump candidate.

I'm an independent. I already have strong political (yet unaffiliated) opinions that are unaffected by this trial, and also unless I look carefully at this trial and unless I understand the justice process then I have no idea if its politically influenced or not. I'm not a realtor. I've never had a political campaign and don't understand why the hush money is illegal or why it would be something to put a candidate into prison for. Maybe it should.

#1 it doesn't affect that there are only 2 parties. We get told what to think by each party. They get their names on the ballots, pre-printed. They decide where the lines are for voting districts. #2 there is no justice for the poor, which is what these cases actually demonstrate on national television.

This trial shouts there is no justice for a poor man or even for an average citizen; yet it hasn't affected anything politically. People are so used to it. Nobody has spoken the unspoken that its unfair to pay 300$ per hour for legal advice, that most regular publicly educated people can't afford to go near a court. I get hackles just thinking about finding a lawyer. Only Trump can defend himself in court. Trials are notoriously expensive, which means they favor the wealthy. A normal con man would be in prison, probably eating food with worms and trying to get ticket #104 for a doctor's visitation list. He wouldn't be living in hotels.

Why only 1/3 the bail? Why? Make him pay his bail. Its an obvious slight against the poor. He was supposed to put down almost 500 million in bail for money, and the judge let him only put down a fraction of that. Because he was so stinking rich and influential. Any other person would have been forced to post the full bail bond. We have to pay our bail, or we rot in jail as our jobs are erased and our families dip into their savings. Who believes that paying lawyers 300$ per hour results in justice? Nobody. That is what stands out about this trial.

 

[Spice]

I'm an independent. I already have strong political (yet unaffiliated) opinions that are unaffected by this trial, and also unless I look carefully at this trial and unless I understand the justice process then I have no idea if its politically influenced or not. I'm not a realtor. I've never had a political campaign and don't understand why the hush money is illegal or why it would be something to put a candidate into prison for. Maybe it should.

#1 it doesn't affect that there are only 2 parties. We get told what to think by each party. They get their names on the ballots, pre-printed. They decide where the lines are for voting districts. #2 there is no justice for the poor, which is what these cases actually demonstrate on national television.

This trial shouts there is no justice for a poor man or even for an average citizen; yet it hasn't affected anything politically. People are so used to it. Nobody has spoken the unspoken that its unfair to pay 300$ per hour for legal advice, that most regular publicly educated people can't afford to go near a court. I get hackles just thinking about finding a lawyer. Only Trump can defend himself in court. Trials are notoriously expensive, which means they favor the wealthy. A normal con man would be in prison, probably eating food with worms and trying to get ticket #104 for a doctor's visitation list. He wouldn't be living in hotels.

Why only 1/3 the bail? Why? Make him pay his bail. Its an obvious slight against the poor. He was supposed to put down almost 500 million in bail for money, and the judge let him only put down a fraction of that. Because he was so stinking rich and influential. Any other person would have been forced to post the full bail bond. We have to pay our bail, or we rot in jail as our jobs are erased and our families dip into their savings. Who believes that paying lawyers 300$ per hour results in justice? Nobody. That is what stands out about this trial.

It's not the paying of the money. It's where the money came from and the doctoring of the books to cover up the mis-handling of funds.

 

[Copernicus]

I'm an independent. I already have strong political (yet unaffiliated) opinions that are unaffected by this trial, and also unless I look carefully at this trial and unless I understand the justice process then I have no idea if its politically influenced or not. I'm not a realtor. I've never had a political campaign and don't understand why the hush money is illegal or why it would be something to put a candidate into prison for. Maybe it should.

#1 it doesn't affect that there are only 2 parties. We get told what to think by each party. They get their names on the ballots, pre-printed. They decide where the lines are for voting districts. #2 there is no justice for the poor, which is what these cases actually demonstrate on national television.

This trial shouts there is no justice for a poor man or even for an average citizen; yet it hasn't affected anything politically. People are so used to it. Nobody has spoken the unspoken that its unfair to pay 300$ per hour for legal advice, that most regular publicly educated people can't afford to go near a court. I get hackles just thinking about finding a lawyer. Only Trump can defend himself in court. Trials are notoriously expensive, which means they favor the wealthy. A normal con man would be in prison, probably eating food with worms and trying to get ticket #104 for a doctor's visitation list. He wouldn't be living in hotels.

Why only 1/3 the bail? Why? Make him pay his bail. Its an obvious slight against the poor. He was supposed to put down almost 500 million in bail for money, and the judge let him only put down a fraction of that. Because he was so stinking rich and influential. Any other person would have been forced to post the full bail bond. We have to pay our bail, or we rot in jail as our jobs are erased and our families dip into their savings. Who believes that paying lawyers 300$ per hour results in justice? Nobody. That is what stands out about this trial.

Thanks for the clarification. I would just point out that Trump is not being tried for paying hush money. He is being tried for the misdemeanor offense of doctoring business records. The charge becomes more serious--a felony crime--when the purpose of doctoring those records was to cover up a separate crime. In this case, that separate crime is alleged to be influencing the outcome of his election campaign, since all funds expended to influence that outcome have to be reported as campaign expenses. For example, if David Pecker killed a story to help Donald Trump win his election, then the value associated with that help is a donation to his campaign that went unreported by Trump. This would be a crime that was covered up in part by Trump's doctoring of his business records. In addition, Trump signed checks that allegedly went to pay the hush money that his alleged co-conspirator, Michael Cohen, paid to Stormy Daniels. These should have been reported as campaign expenses, but Trump took steps to conceal those payments. His defense was that he was only worried about Melania finding out about his sleazy affair with Stormy Daniels while she was pregnant with his child and in the hospital. However, pretty much everyone involved in his campaign was pretty sure it was about the public not learning of the affair before they voted on whether to elect him to public office.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It's not the paying of the money. It's where the money came from and the doctoring of the books to cover up the mis-handling of funds.

A wealthy and influential person goes to court, behaves badly; and no punishment is given. A poor person does that and is thrown into jail.

A wealthy person owes 500million. He's ordered to post bond for it in order to appeal. He begs for an exception that is never given to anyone. He gets the exception because he asks.

 

[Spice]

A wealthy and influential person goes to court, behaves badly; and no punishment is given. A poor person does that and is thrown into jail.

A wealthy person owes 500million. He's ordered to post bond for it in order to appeal. He begs for an exception that is never given to anyone. He gets the exception because he asks.

Yep, that's how it flows, but hopefully this time, hopefully, justice will balance somewhere along the course.

 

[Copernicus]

So far, during today's proceedings, Trump has been found in criminal contempt for a tenth time. Judge Merchan has fined him $10K so far--pocket change for Donald Trump, but he now says that Trump will get jail time going forward, if he continues to violate the gag order against comments about jurors, witnesses, and others connected to the trial. Trump is free to post nasty, intimidating remarks about Merchan himself, however, and to say that he thinks the trial is unfair to him.

Judge finds Trump further violated gag order and again threatens him with jail 'if necessary'

Trump has said in the past that he would welcome jail time, since he can use it to raise money for his legal expenses. If his antics continue, the first confinements will likely be short and build up over time. He can be jailed for up to 30 days. Merchan told Trump that he would put him in a jail cell, even though he knows full well that Trump is a former President and may become the next one.

ETA: I tried to find out how Fox News is covering the trial. So far, I have found that it is somewhat buried on their web site and covered with minimal details. They may have mentioned the contempt finding somewhere, but I didn't see it. All of the other main news outlets are giving the story full coverage.

 

[McBell]

If that happens, how do you think it would impact the election?

It won't.

 

[McBell]

So far, during today's proceedings, Trump has been found in criminal contempt for a tenth time. Judge Merchan has fined him $10K so far--pocket change for Donald Trump, but he now says that Trump will get jail time going forward, if he continues to violate the gag order against comments about jurors, witnesses, and others connected to the trial. Trump is free to post nasty, intimidating remarks about Merchan himself, however, and to say that he thinks the trial is unfair to him.

Judge finds Trump further violated gag order and again threatens him with jail 'if necessary'

Trump has said in the past that he would welcome jail time, since he can use it to raise money for his legal expenses. If his antics continue, the first confinements will likely be short and build up over time. He can be jailed for up to 30 days. Merchan told Trump that he would put him in a jail cell, even though he knows full well that Trump is a former President and may become the next one.

At this point even I know the threat of jail has absolutely no teeth.

 

[Copernicus]

At this point even I know the threat of jail has absolutely no teeth.

Do you mean that the judge won't actually jail him or that it won't matter if he does? My own opinion from reading reports from inside the courtroom is that the judge will go ahead with confinement. There is a jail cell inside the court building where he can be held. I also believe that it will come as a shock to many Americans, who believe that Trump is above the law and will never actually sit in a jail cell.

 

[McBell]

Do you mean that the judge won't actually jail him or that it won't matter if he does?

Definitely looks that way to me.
ten times in contempt of court in one trial and not seen a single minute of jail time?

My own opinion from reading reports from inside the courtroom is that the judge will go ahead with confinement.

WTF is the judge waiting on?
Will trump have to actually pull out a gun in court and shoot someone before he is threatened with prison?

There is a jail cell inside the court building where he can be held.

That at this rate he will never see the inside of.

I also believe that it will come as a shock to many Americans, who believe that Trump is above the law and will never actually sit in a jail cell.

It will come as shock to the whole world if trump sees any jail time from that judge.

 

[Copernicus]

Definitely looks that way to me.
ten times in contempt of court in one trial and not seen a single minute of jail time?

WTF is the judge waiting on?
Will trump have to actually pull out a gun in court and shoot someone before he is threatened with prison?

No judge wants to put a former President in a jail cell, unless it becomes absolutely necessary. This one knows that Donald Trump doesn't really know what he is facing, so he is giving Trump time to realize what he is doing. I don't think that Trump can control himself, and the judge probably believes that, too. Nevertheless, Merchan has to give Trump a chance to realize what he is facing.

That at this rate he will never see the inside of.

It will come as shock to the whole world if trump sees any jail time from that judge.

Fair enough, but here is what Merchan told Donald Trump:

“Going forward, this court will have to consider a jail sanction,” Merchan said Monday.

“Mr. Trump, it’s important you understand, the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Merchan said.

“The magnitude of this decision is not lost on me but at the end of the day I have a job to do,” the judge added. “So as much as I don’t want to impose a jail sanction … I want you to understand that I will if necessary and appropriate.”

Merchan has been hesitant to impose jail time, because the prosecution has not asked for it. However, 10 violations sets a clear pattern of intention into goading the judge to jail him. I have no idea whether Trump himself believes he will end up in a jail cell, but he may really believe that it will work in his favor if he does. If that is the case, then I believe that Merchan will give him a taste of what he wishes for. After that, we'll probably learn whether it was everything that Trump expected it to be. He has never actually sat in a jail cell before, and he may discover that he won't be able to put all of his makeup on properly, if he spends the night. He'll likely just get a few hours to sit quietly, at first--the equivalent of making a child stand in the corner. They can work up to overnight and more than one night, depending on how seriously Trump continues to violate the gag order.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So far, during today's proceedings, Trump has been found in criminal contempt for a tenth time. Judge Merchan has fined him $10K so far--pocket change for Donald Trump, but he now says that Trump will get jail time going forward, if he continues to violate the gag order against comments about jurors, witnesses, and others connected to the trial. Trump is free to post nasty, intimidating remarks about Merchan himself, however, and to say that he thinks the trial is unfair to him.

Judge finds Trump further violated gag order and again threatens him with jail 'if necessary'

Trump has said in the past that he would welcome jail time, since he can use it to raise money for his legal expenses. If his antics continue, the first confinements will likely be short and build up over time. He can be jailed for up to 30 days. Merchan told Trump that he would put him in a jail cell, even though he knows full well that Trump is a former President and may become the next one.

ETA: I tried to find out how Fox News is covering the trial. So far, I have found that it is somewhat buried on their web site and covered with minimal details. They may have mentioned the contempt finding somewhere, but I didn't see it. All of the other main news outlets are giving the story full coverage.

Maybe someday the proper focus will be on the case instead of this obsession over gag orders.

 

[McBell]

Maybe someday the proper focus will be on the case instead of this obsession over gag orders.

Trump wants the focus to be on anything and everything other than the actual case.
That is his whole gimmick.
Stall stall stall and then stall some more.

And since the threat of jail has no teeth and the fines are pocket change, what incentive does have to stop the nonsense when the nonsense helps him?

I do not blame him one bit.
Go with what works.

 

[Copernicus]

Maybe someday the proper focus will be on the case instead of this obsession over gag orders.

The point of the gag order is to make the proper focus be on the case. Donald Trump is the one turning it into an obsession with his continual complaints about not being able to violate it and then going ahead and violating it anyway.

 

[McBell]

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/06/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial/trump-held-in-contempt-again-00156238

Justice Juan Merchan gave Donald Trump a stern warning Monday morning that he will end up behind bars if he continues to violate the gag order the judge imposed in Trump’s hush money trial in New York.​

​

“It appears that the $1,000 fines are not serving as a deterrent. Going forward, this court will have to consider a jail sanction,” Merchan said as he found Trump had violated the gag for a 10th time.​