Is a Belief a Claim?

[SalixIncendium]

Inspired by something I read in another thread here, where a member stated they're not making a claim, but expressing a belief, and another member, in the ever so civil and polite demeanor of so many of our debaters here, replied, "a claim."

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim? Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence? Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Why or why not?

 

[ChristineM]

Is a Belief a Claim?​

No... unless that believe is put forward as truth. Then it becomes a claim.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Is a Belief a Claim?​

No... unless that believe is put forward as truth. Then it becomes a claim.

What if I say I believe something to be true (which is precisely what transpired in the conversation)? Does it remain a belief or does adding "to be true" to the belief make it a claim?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim?

A belief:

I believe in a First Cause.​

A claim:

There must be a First Cause.​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What if I say I believe something to be true (which is precisely what transpired in the conversation)? Does it remain a belief or does adding "to be true" to the belief make it a claim?

If you say that you believe a claim to be true you are admitting a belief and acknowledging a claim.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If you say that you believe a claim to be true you are admitting a belief and acknowledging a claim.

I'm not clear on what you mean here. Are you saying that as a result of adding "to be true" to the belief, i.e. "I believe _________ to be true," does that render the belief a claim. I'm not sure what you meant by "acknowledging a claim."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What if I say I believe something to be true (which is precisely what transpired in the conversation)? Does it remain a belief or does adding "to be true" to the belief make it a claim?

In my view, our beliefs inform our actions. I may say I don't believe in gravity, but when I refuse to step of the roof, you are quite likely to suppose that I am not being entirely truthful -- that perhaps I might just believe in gravity after all.

Now, that was mildly unimportant, but the point is this -- if your actions are truly going to be informed by your beliefs, I think it a wise step to investigate your beliefs. There was a time when people believed that their gods required human sacrifices -- cutting the hearts out of living people. It would not be in anyone's best interest -- not even yours -- to hold such a belief today. The chances of getting caught, and the consequences, are too great.

Some of our beliefs inform actions that are not at all harmful -- causing people to go and pray once a week, or 5 times a day, or whenever. That's a kind of so-what? belief and doesn't matter much. Other beliefs cause us to do great harm to others -- for example that gay people should be shunned and hated, or locked up, or even killed, because their gods don't like them. Such beliefs deserve to be carefully examined, wouldn't you think?

 

[Augustus]

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim?

You are making the claim that you believe X, not that belief X is necessarily true.

Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence?

Not unless you need to convince someone.

Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Of course not, what you believe is up to you.

 

[SalixIncendium]

In my view, our beliefs inform our actions. I may say I don't believe in gravity, but when I refuse to step of the roof, you are quite likely to suppose that I am not being entirely truthful -- that perhaps I might just believe in gravity after all.

Now, that was mildly unimportant, but the point is this -- if your actions are truly going to be informed by your beliefs, I think it a wise step to investigate your beliefs. There was a time when people believed that their gods required human sacrifices -- cutting the hearts out of living people. It would not be in anyone's best interest -- not even yours -- to hold such a belief today. The chances of getting caught, and the consequences, are too great.

Some of our beliefs inform actions that are not at all harmful -- causing people to go and pray once a week, or 5 times a day, or whenever. That's a kind of so-what? belief and doesn't matter much. Other beliefs cause us to do great harm to others -- for example that gay people should be shunned and hated, or locked up, or even killed, because their gods don't like them. Such beliefs deserve to be carefully examined, wouldn't you think?

And likewise, some beliefs that inform our actions are quite benevolent. Karma is the perfect example. One who believes their benevolent actions breed good karma and malevolent actions breed bad karma will much likely to perform benevolent actions than they would be to perform malevolent ones.

While I appreciate the post, you really didn't answer the question. Is a belief a claim?

 

[ChristineM]

What if I say I believe something to be true (which is precisely what transpired in the conversation)? Does it remain a belief or does adding "to be true" to the belief make it a claim?

The "i believe" leaves it a a belief.

 

[Stevicus]

Inspired by something I read in another thread here, where a member stated they're not making a claim, but expressing a belief, and another member, in the ever so civil and polite demeanor of so many of our debaters here, replied, "a claim."

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim? Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence? Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Why or why not?

In general, most human interactions could be considered less formalized and need not fall within the constraints of scientific or academic discipline.

If someone says they believe something to be true but can't prove it, then I would respect their beliefs and leave it at that. If I'm curious or they care to share it with me, I might be interested in their reason(s) for believing as they do. I may still not believe and even disagree, but I'm still interested in the reasons why.

It seems to me that a claim would imply a greater degree of certainty than a belief. Like in the game, Clue, where one might say "I accuse Professor Plum of doing it with the candlestick in the ballroom." If you're wrong, you lose the game.

 

[Bthoth]

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim?

Yes, an opinion from what you have observed as belief.

Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence?

To expect another to accept it, yes.

Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Not really but many can help with additional perspective to assist another to comprehend more than they had previously.

Why or why not?

To improve.

Generally conscious lives are willing to assists others to assist in survival.

For example: 'where is water?' The majority will assist with a correct answer about naturally. Others are like a sibling and willing to mislead another to keep the hoard for themselves.

Then the truly rude, will just keep a superiority mindset and practically expect a fee for the service. Many folk have a sense of proprietary which became a scope of having power over others.

 

[Viker]

No.

A claim is an assertion of truth.

A belief is an acceptance of something rather it be from personal experience or from an environmental/traditional influence. It doesn't have to be about truth. Belief is purely subjective. Belief is at best related to faith and trust.

Of course, when someone states that they believe something to be true or factual it then can be seen as a claim. But this is still tricky. It's when someone states they know something is true then they have made a claim. There's no ambiguity left and the claim then should be supported by veracity.

Example: I believe in magic leaf elves. I have no proof because I don't care if anyone one else believes. It's more tiny golden acorns for me anyway.

Example: I believe there are magic leaf elves. I know they exist. I have evidence and can prove it! My magic leaf elf writings contain the truth!

BTW, may magic leaf elves bless you all with tiny golden acorns. They know you and believe in you.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, an opinion from what you have observed as belief.

Are you saying that an opinion is synonymous with a claim?

To expect another to accept it, yes.

Perhaps you missed this qualification in the OP...

...with no expectation for you to believe that which I do

Generally conscious lives are willing to assists others to assist in survival.

For example: 'where is water?' The majority will assist with a correct answer about naturally. Others are like a sibling and willing to mislead another to keep the hoard for themselves.

Then the truly rude, will just keep a superiority mindset and practically expect a fee for the service. Many folk have a sense of proprietary which became a scope of having power over others.

I truly have no idea how this relates to the OP.

 

[Heyo]

What if I say I believe something to be true (which is precisely what transpired in the conversation)? Does it remain a belief or does adding "to be true" to the belief make it a claim?

It makes it an oxymoron.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Inspired by something I read in another thread here, where a member stated they're not making a claim, but expressing a belief, and another member, in the ever so civil and polite demeanor of so many of our debaters here, replied, "a claim."

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim? Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence? Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Why or why not?

"Claim" can mean:

1. A statement that can be evaluated for truth or falsehood.
2. A statement that something is the case (especially if no justification is provided).
3. An assertion that something is true.

A belief will always meet definition #1. A belief announced to others will generally meet definition #2. Merely announcing your belief wouldn't meet definition #3.

If you care whether your beliefs are true, then you'll make sure they're falsifiable and supported. If you don't care, then you have no obligation in this regard.

 

[Heyo]

Inspired by something I read in another thread here, where a member stated they're not making a claim, but expressing a belief, and another member, in the ever so civil and polite demeanor of so many of our debaters here, replied, "a claim."

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim? Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence? Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Why or why not?

"X is Y" is a claim. "i believe that X is Y" is not a claim but simply a report of an inner state.

But as often as we say "X is Y" when we meant to say "I believe that X is Y", "I believe that X is Y" is heard as "X is Y".
When you are conscious about that, it should only take one sentence to correct yourself or your interlocutor.

I usually don't attack believes that are stated as such but some beliefs are so outrageous that I can't let it stand when uttered in public. E.g. "I believe that climate change is bull****" will get a reaction, most likely in the form of "Why do you believe that?".

 

[PureX]

What if I say I believe something to be true (which is precisely what transpired in the conversation)? Does it remain a belief or does adding "to be true" to the belief make it a claim?

The determining issue is am I stating that YOU should accept the truth that I believe in as true, as I do.

But lots of people want to pass judgment on what other people believe, regardless, so they don't hold back in the face of someone else's stated beliefs even when they are not implying anyone else must accept them as true.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"X is Y" is a claim. "i believe that X is Y" is not a claim but simply a report of an inner state.

... sure, if we completely ignore connotation and context.

Edit: "I believe that X is Y" is not a claim in the same sense that "if you could pass the salt, that would be awesome" is not a request for the salt.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

While I appreciate the post, you really didn't answer the question. Is a belief a claim?

Beliefs are prepositional that is, they are always about someone or something. They can be either true or false, but are usually assumed to be true by those holding them. But "assuming" is not "claiming,' so I rather think we can think of beliefs as more judgement or opinion.

When a belief is stated in a declarative way, such as "Christ is risen," that is when we start calling it a claim or statement. Claims are things that we can think critically about. Beliefs, perhaps, not so much. If someone says, for example, "I think Elvis is still alive," we can wonder why she might think so, but if she says "Elvis is alive," then we can start digging around for evidence of that, or for evidence that he truly died.