• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Human-caused climate change - what the scientists are actually saying

anotherneil

Active Member
Here are more scientists discussing human-caused climate change:


Craig Idso - PhD (Arizona State University); agronomy & geography



William Gray - PhD & professor (Colorado State University)



Simon Clark - PhD (University of Exeter); mathematics



Marcel Leroux - PhD & professor (Université Jean Moulin)
Turn on CC & select English for subtitles in "settings" (the gear icon):



Paul Reiter - PhD (University of Sussex); researcher

 

anotherneil

Active Member
We got a couple of views on scientific insight here. For me if someone posted links about how the world's scientists were in agreement that water was not wet, I'd go over to the sink & check and if I saw that water was in fact wet I'd either conclude that the world's scientists were mistaken or perhaps those scientists never said such nonsense from the getgo.

That's my take on this climate confusion. What I'm hearing is that something's bad. Many (but not all) say that the worst part is the heating of the earth. For me it's impossible to approach the question rationally w/o clarity. Can you tell me what's "bad"?
I think you have exactly the right idea here. Science is not what someone dictates to you; science is what you - yourself - determine from observation and experimentation, in order to corroborate a claim about the universe and reality.

When I was in college, one of my physics professors said that our lab experiment reports had to be written in the past tense - I did this, I observed that, this is what happened, etc.

There's a difference between what you witnessed happen and what someone else says happened; even our system of justice is based on witness testimony, not hearsay.

Someone says "water is wet" - this is just a statement, a claim that they make. A statement can be true or false. It's on you to test this claim by doing just what you say you'll do, which is to go over to the sink to determine whether or not it is indeed wet. Obviously it's something we've done and have been doing ever since we were old enough to go to the sink and wash our hands; from that experience we have repeated the test countless times and don't need to do it yet again, even though we eventually will the next time we need to wash our hands, or the dishes, etc.

When someone tells you something and demands that you must accept it, or else you will be shunned, that's not science, that's religion.

When someone tells you that you have to believe something because they say that some scientists are saying it's true, including with peer-reviewed articles, that's an appeal to authority fallacy. The late, great, Carl Sagan (my avatar is a cartoon depiction of him) pointed out that arguments from authority should not be trusted.

When someone accepts what someone says without challenging it, especially when there's a conflict of interest involved, that makes them gullible.

I don't know whether the relentless insistence about human-caused climate change is the result of gullibility, the result of people not being able to admit that they're wrong (or in denial that they are), or a combination of both.

An example of crony capitalism is politicians using tax money to fund cherry-picked scientists who write papers saying something is happening in order to impose policy on us, so they can make themselves wealthier.

There seems to be a bunch of hearsay upon appeal to authority upon cherry picking, and it's up to individuals to decide what the truth is by saying "show me."

As you can see from videos that I'm posting, I'm not trying to tell you anything you have to believe. I'm directly showing what a huge number of experts are saying.

Consider that anyone else can post such material consisting of their choice of scientists as a rebuttal to any bias that may exist on my part, and there's nothing I can do to stop them, yet they choose to forgo this option. Even if they did, it would just show that contrary to the popular narrative being pushed, there is no scientific consensus particularly for human-caused climate change (perhaps that's why they refrain from doing so).
 
Last edited:

Yerda

Veteran Member
Science is not what someone dictates to you;
Unless they have a video on youtube that supports your view, apparently.

science is what you - yourself - determine from observation and experimentation, in order to corroborate a claim about the universe and reality.
Can you please post the observations that you've made which contradict the findings of climate scientists?

When someone accepts what someone says without challenging it, especially when there's a conflict of interest involved, that makes them gullible.

I don't know whether the relentless insistence about human-caused climate change is the result of gullibility, the result of people not being able to admit that they're wrong (or in denial that they are), or a combination of both.

An example of crony capitalism is politicians using tax money to fund cherry-picked scientists who write papers saying something is happening in order to impose policy on us, so they can make themselves wealthier.
Spouting a conspiracy theory while calling other people gullible. This is precious.
 

anotherneil

Active Member
Unless they have a video on youtube that supports your view, apparently.
What is my view?

Can you please post the observations that you've made which contradict the findings of climate scientists?
Nope, because I don't have any observations that I've made which contradict the findings of climate scientists.

Spouting a conspiracy theory while calling other people gullible.
Sure, why not - it balances out with the conspiracy theory about the hydrocarbon industry bribing scientists.

This is precious.
What's precious to me are the lives of innocent people who are going to suffer as a result of crony capitalist climate policies that ban the use of hydrocarbons for heat & energy that they need to survive.
 

Pete in Panama

Well-Known Member
Maybe, you could explain what you're getting at because you lost me a bit there.


Who says that "earth is one degree C hotter now than it was a century ago, that this increase is extraordinarily bad"?

I haven't seen any discussion to this end.


The consequences of just over a degree rise in the pre-industrial baseline aren't necessarily a catastrophe. The risks appear to compound rather quickly when we get over 2 degrees warming due to the nature of feedback loops and possibility of runaway heating.
There are a lot of points there that we could go into but my thinking is that what is important is what you are saying now. What I'm getting from you now is:
  1. The earth is not harmfully hotter now compared to before.
  2. You are concerned about the world being harmfully hotter in the future.
Do I understand you correctly now?
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
There are a lot of points there that we could go into but my thinking is that what is important is what you are saying now. What I'm getting from you now is:
  1. The earth is not harmfully hotter now compared to before.
  2. You are concerned about the world being harmfully hotter in the future.
Do I understand you correctly now?
Close enough.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
What's precious to me are the lives of innocent people who are going to suffer as a result of crony capitalist climate policies that ban the use of hydrocarbons for heat & energy that they need to survive.
Which countries have banned the use of hydrocarbons for heat and energy? Fossil fuel use is still growing.

Screenshot 2024-05-05 at 13-02-32 Fossil fuels.png


 

Pete in Panama

Well-Known Member
We concur.

I think you have exactly the right idea here. Science is not what someone dictates to you; science is what you - yourself - determine from observation and experimentation, in order to corroborate a claim about the universe and reality.

When I was in college, one of my physics professors said that our lab experiment reports had to be written in the past tense - I did this, I observed that, this is what happened, etc.

There's a difference between what you witnessed happen and what someone else says happened; even our system of justice is based on witness testimony, not hearsay.

Someone says "water is wet" - this is just a statement, a claim that they make. A statement can be true or false. It's on you to test this claim by doing just what you say you'll do, which is to go over to the sink to determine whether or not it is indeed wet. Obviously it's something we've done and have been doing ever since we were old enough to go to the sink and wash our hands; from that experience we have repeated the test countless times and don't need to do it yet again, even though we eventually will the next time we need to wash our hands, or the dishes, etc.

When someone tells you something and demands that you must accept it, or else you will be shunned, that's not science, that's religion.

When someone tells you that you have to believe something because they say that some scientists are saying it's true, including with peer-reviewed articles, that's an appeal to authority fallacy. The late, great, Carl Sagan (my avatar is a cartoon depiction of him) pointed out that arguments from authority should not be trusted.

When someone accepts what someone says without challenging it, especially when there's a conflict of interest involved, that makes them gullible.

I don't know whether the relentless insistence about human-caused climate change is the result of gullibility, the result of people not being able to admit that they're wrong (or in denial that they are), or a combination of both.

An example of crony capitalism is politicians using tax money to fund cherry-picked scientists who write papers saying something is happening in order to impose policy on us, so they can make themselves wealthier.

There seems to be a bunch of hearsay upon appeal to authority upon cherry picking, and it's up to individuals to decide what the truth is by saying "show me."

As you can see from videos that I'm posting, I'm not trying to tell you anything you have to believe. I'm directly showing what a huge number of experts are saying.

Consider that anyone else can post such material consisting of their choice of scientists as a rebuttal to any bias that may exist on my part, and there's nothing I can do to stop them, yet they choose to forgo this option. Even if they did, it would just show that contrary to the popular narrative being pushed, there is no scientific consensus particularly for human-caused climate change (perhaps that's why they refrain from doing so).
We concur.

A quick google/duckduckgo search w/ "how much hotter is the world" gives dozens of hits w/ some kind of rise in temp. They're all different. What we know is that there's a big fuss about his issue. My problem is that whenever I ask what the problem is they say I'm a bad guy because I'm not fussing like they are. As the saying goes, we'd rather have a question that can't be answered to having an answer that can't be questioned.

Meanwhile, it still seems like a good idea to keep tabs on the physics of the issue just in case, but I'm coming to learn that the bigger problem here is social/political, not scientific.
 

Pete in Panama

Well-Known Member
Which countries have banned the use of hydrocarbons for heat and energy? Fossil fuel use is still growing.

View attachment 91265

What I've seen is that the market price of what folks call "fossil fuels" has been stable/dropping over the past two centuries. To me that means we're not hitting shortages.
 

anotherneil

Active Member
Which countries have banned the use of hydrocarbons for heat and energy? Fossil fuel use is still growing.

View attachment 91265

I'm referring to this sort of thing: https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/new-york-natural-gas-ban-climate/index.html

I mentioned it in this post, on another thread: How climate change alarmism laws are unconstitutional
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Ok, so we can agree that nothing bad is happening now, and you have an opinion about the future.
I think it's fair to say that whatever harmful consequences there are from the heating we have experienced, they are fairly moderate when compared to the consequences we risk from heating in excess of 2 degrees.


Like Yogi Berra once said, predictions are really hard to make --especially about the future.
We can't be 100% certain about anything - the sun might blink out tomorrow and we all freeze to death on snowball earth. We can say that we have good reason to be confident about some predictions though.

The only rational approach is to consider costs vs benefits and take a risk management approach based on the most rigorous empirical findings we can get our hands on.
 

anotherneil

Active Member
Here are a few more scientists discussing human-caused climate change:


Phil Klotzbach - PhD & research scientist (Colorado State University)



Susan Crockford - PhD & professor (University of Victoria)



Karl Zeller - PhD (Colorado State University); meteorology



Fritz Vahrenholt - PhD & professor (University of Hamburg)

 

anotherneil

Active Member
This framing exposes you as a bad faith participant.
Well I don't matter, anyways. This thread isn't for an interview with me; it's for showing what the scientists are actually saying about human-caused climate change. Which presentations have you viewed so far & what are your thoughts on them? Do you have any of your own to provide?
 
Top