Its not euthanasia, its suicide.

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't change my moral views easily.

What you said is that you won't change them AT ALL, no matter what.

That would be rather dumb, as if they are that shallow. But you're not even giving me the chance to understand it more. That's your problem.

You have access to the internet. If you actually cared about not being short-sighted & judgemental, you would have looked up additional intel yourself already.


But you don't care. You are just all like "euthanasia = bad" and prefer to sling mud at people who point it out. Even insulting the girl's mom and doctors in the process. All without knowing ANYTHING about the case at all.

And then you get fired up when people call it out.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You don't have to be a doctor to recognize poor medicine in practice.

But you don't know anything at all about the "medicine in practice" as it concerns this case...........

 

[Twilight Hue]

But you don't know anything at all about the "medicine in practice" as it concerns this case...........

I'm sure a fair number his peers will disagree this is good medicine.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What you said is that you won't change them AT ALL, no matter what.


You have access to the internet. If you actually cared about not being short-sighted & judgemental, you would have looked up additional intel yourself already.


But you don't care. You are just all like "euthanasia = bad" and prefer to sling mud at people who point it out. Even insulting the girl's mom and doctors in the process. All without knowing ANYTHING about the case at all.

And then you get fired up when people call it out.

No, I'm not very likely to start supporting letting or encouraging severely depressed people to commit suicide. That's not even euthanasia to me. I find it morally evil and psychopathic. I believe we all have a duty to each other as members of a common society, to safeguard each other's lives. You can't take back suicide. By killing yourself, you permanently remove any chance of healing.

But you can keep throwing a tantrum. I just asked for some links. Whatever.

 

[Link]

People judging judgment are usually judging themselves but in a wrong way.

 

[SkepticThinker]

From the Mayo Clinic:

If you've been treated for depression but your symptoms haven't improved, you may have treatment-resistant depression. Taking an antidepressant or going to psychological counseling (psychotherapy) eases depression symptoms for most people. But with treatment-resistant depression, standard treatments aren't enough. They may not help much at all, or your symptoms may improve, only to keep coming back. [source]​

I came here to point this out. ^^

 

[JustGeorge]

People judging judgment are usually judging themselves but in a wrong way.

I'm confused.

 

[Link]

I'm confused.

It's the paradoxical thing to judge judgment. So when people talk about people being judgmental in negative sense, they are being judgmental themselves.

It's better to be balanced and say sometimes there can be misjudgments, but judging is not a real problem.

We should condemn certain things.

 

[Twilight Hue]

But you don't know anything at all about the "medicine in practice" as it concerns this case...........

Suicide is not a practice of medicine. It's a colossal failure of medicine in putting down a poor suffering creature out of its misery.

While I think a person has a right to off themselves if they really want to, to have a doctor finalize a chronic mental condition that isn't a result of any notable deformity or injury leaves me flabbergasted as well as others, and unquestionably opens doors that shouldn't be opened.

This woman didn't kill herself right away. That tells me she isn't that suicidal yet leaving a modicum of hope, but in spite of her hesitancy, will nevertheless be manipulated and encouraged to commit suicide, as this is a legitimate way to ultimately 'cure' her of her mental depression.

I tried suicide myself twice in my life when I was young, so I know more about it than people think.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm sure a fair number his peers will disagree this is good medicine.

And you base that certainty on..... what, exactly?

 

[Twilight Hue]

And you base that certainty on..... what, exactly?

I said I'm sure, not certain. Keep it in context.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, I'm not very likely to start supporting letting or encouraging severely depressed people to commit suicide.

"encouraging"? There you go again making assumptions about a case you know nothing about.

That's not even euthanasia to me.

Just what do you think euthanasia is? It IS suicide. Assisted suicide, to be exact.
This is always the case.

When you pull the plug on someone who's braindead, it is not euthanasia.
Euthanasia happens upon the request of the patient. There's a whole procedure and criteria involved as well. It is not at all taken lightly.
It's a procedure that takes months, if not years, to get it done.

I find it morally evil and psychopathic. I believe we all have a duty to each other as members of a common society, to safeguard each other's lives. You can't take back suicide. By killing yourself, you permanently remove any chance of healing.

That's assuming there is a chance of healing.
But here we are at the main point, which I already pointed out. Your objection here isn't about this particular case (of which, as we established already, you know virtually NOTHING about). Your objection is about one thing only: "euthanasia = bad". You don't care about the specific case at all. It matters not to you.

It's a dogmatic stance that you have.

But you can keep throwing a tantrum.

You're the one who's throwing the tantrum...... I'm the one who's pointing it out.

I just asked for some links. Whatever.

Don't ask for things that don't interest you anyway.
If it did interest you, you would have looked it up already.

Note also that I haven't taken any stance here whatsoever on the specific case.
I've only pointed out your extreme judgemental stance, where you insulted and judged the patient, the doctors, her boyfriend, her mother...
And you did all that without knowing ANYTHING about the specifics.

Take a step back, take a deep breath, put your steaming emotions aside for a second and consider that fact.
Do you feel like you honestly are in a position here to take such a judgemental stance on this specific case? Do you feel like you know enough about it, about her specific situation, to take this stance?

Have you even noticed that the article itself, in one of the 2 sentences that actually deal with her situation, it is actually also noted that there is much more going on with her then a mere depression?

I have a feeling that you don't. You are just fuming and get blinded by your, what I can only call, judgemental hatred.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Suicide is not a practice of medicine. It's a colossal failure of medicine in putting down a poor suffering creature out of its misery.

While I think a person has a right to off themselves if they really want to, to have a doctor finalize a chronic mental condition that isn't a result of any notable deformity or injury leaves me flabbergasted as well as others, and unquestionably opens doors that shouldn't be opened.

This woman didn't kill herself right away. That tells me she isn't that suicidal yet leaving a modicum of hope, but in spite of her hesitancy, will nevertheless be manipulated and encouraged to commit suicide, as this is a legitimate way to ultimately 'cure' her of her mental depression.

I tried suicide myself twice in my life when I was young, so I know more about it than people think.

On what do you base your idea that this woman has been "encouraged" by others to opt for euthanasia and that this isn't her own decision?

It's a bizar thing to say, especially so since the article itself has a quote directly from this woman where she says the following:

“I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore,” ter Beek said.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I said I'm sure, not certain. Keep it in context.

Sounds pretty synonymous to me....

Having said that, I'm sure / certain that for every and any treatment prescribed by a doctor, you can find another doctor who will say he would have done it differently and claim it would have been better.

 

[McBell]

While I think a person has a right to off themselves if they really want to, to have a doctor finalize a chronic mental condition that isn't a result of any notable deformity or injury leaves me flabbergasted as well as others, and unquestionably opens doors that shouldn't be opened.

There were at minimum five different people who saw, reviewed and then agreed to allow the euthanization to proceed.

Three of those at least five never met her in person.

 

[Twilight Hue]

On what do you base your idea that this woman has been "encouraged" by others to opt for euthanasia and that this isn't her own decision?

It's a bizar thing to say, especially so since the article itself has a quote directly from this woman where she says the following:

“I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore,” ter Beek said.

What's bizarre is you think this isn't a failure.

 

[Link]

What's bizarre is you think this isn't a failure.

It's not bizarre to me. Some people are so rebellious against God and his chosen, that they support anything that opposes their morals no matter how much of an abomination it is.

It's become an inevitable expectation to me, that mankind will further degrade.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What's bizarre is you think this isn't a failure.

I don't know if it is a failure or not. I know nothing about this case. Neither do any of you who all are VERY QUICK with your judgements.
I haven't said anything at all about me thinking it is or is not a failure.

What is bizarre is how quick the lot of you are to judge this thing while knowing literally nothing about it.

What I do know is that euthanasia isn't taken lightly. Not in the Netherlands and not in Belgium. What I do know is that there's a whole procedure before the proceedings are cleared and I also know this procedure is quite detailed and has quite strict criteria. I happen to personally knew somebody who went through it. It took 8 months and plenty of interviews and examinations and second and third opinions and hearings and.... on and on. I have no reason at all to doubt that this procedure wasn't properly followed. To call it a "failure", imo anyways, would mean that this procedure wasn't properly followed in this particular case.

It certainly could be the case that it wasn't properly followed, but at present I have seen no indication whatsoever that it wasn't. Neither does the article mention such at all.

So yeah.... not quite sure what else to say here.

As I said to @Saint Frankenstein : all I have done here is point out to people who quicly they jumped on the judgemental band wagon, calling the doctors "failures" and insulting both the patient and her mom, claiming medical malpractice and what-not.... while knowing literally nothing about the case.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's not bizarre to me. Some people are so rebellious against God and his chosen, that they support anything that opposes their morals no matter how much of an abomination it is.

It's become an inevitable expectation to me, that mankind will further degrade.

Another one who has problems with reading comprehension and who's engaging in quickdraw judgemental nonsense pretending moral superiority.


I haven't said anything at all about supporting this or not.
I don't know anything about the case so I don't pretend to be in a position where I can even have an informed opinion about it.

The arrogance in this thread is astounding.

 

[Link]

Another one who has problems with reading comprehension and who's engaging in quickdraw judgemental nonsense pretending moral superiority.


I haven't said anything at all about supporting this or not.
I don't know anything about the case so I don't pretend to be in a position where I can even have an informed opinion about it.

The arrogance in this thread is astounding.

You are not looking for mental clarity but mental confusion.