Zen Moment

[Brickjectivity]

Yes. It is yummy. I don't think any other word could be more appropriate.

You must admit that is hilarious.

 

[Martin]

I dunno. I've come across a few spiritual junkies with the usual junkie psychology. I'm a recovering koan junkie. Therefore, I'm careful not to become a bliss junkie.

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[crossfire]

*snirk* 'Yummy' ? Its yummy! :>

words sometimes they are fun

Yes. It is yummy. I don't think any other word could be more appropriate. Maybe ambrosia.

Here is a link describing the rupa jhana cycle. The third rupa jhana is the one that really grabs you and you could become addicted to it if you don't continue on to the fourth rupa jhana and finish the cycle of individuation.

 

[crossfire]

I wouldn't worry about it.

I do worry about it. See post #23.

 

[Sunstone]

That's basically a description of samadhi?

Yes.

In a causal way of speaking, "yes", Meerkat. Usually "yes" will do. But sometimes, it can matter to answer your question with unusual precision and try to get the answer as precisely correct as words will allow. At that point, it becomes necessary to state something along the lines of, "It's not of description of samadhi, but a test for whether samadhi occurred at some specified past moment."

In either case, the test doesn't really describe samadhi more than to the least degree possible. The test is akin to asking someone, "Did you smell smoke yesterday?" Big difference between the smell of smoke and even smoke, let alone fire.

The test cannot detect something happening now. Only whether something happened before now.

For all it's inadequacies, it's a whole lot more reliable way of helping someone to figure out whether they have had an experience of samadhi than anything else I've seen or heard tried. It especially beasts trying to describe samadhi to someone, then, in effect, asking them whether they understood what you were talking about well enough to correctly answer the question. And it sure beats trying to explain the causes of samadhi to someone, then expecting them to figure out how the causes might have resulted in the experience they had.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Here is a link describing the rupa jhana cycle. The third rupa jhana is the one that really grabs you and you could become addicted to it if you don't continue on to the fourth rupa jhana and finish the cycle of individuation.

Going by that description a person who reaches this fourth state is no longer subject to what we call personality problems. They won't have Borderline or Narc or Anxiety etc.

 

[crossfire]

Going by that description a person who reaches this fourth state is no longer subject to what we call personality problems. They won't have Borderline or Narc or Anxiety etc.

Yes. Equinimity. (For that particular state of consciousness through the directed thought associated with the first rupa jhana that triggered the jhana cycle.) You know it and recognize it for what it is, and can sit easily and steadily with that knowledge without any junkie-like behavior.

 

[Martin]

In a causal way of speaking, "yes", Meerkat. Usually "yes" will do. But sometimes, it can matter to answer your question with unusual precision and try to get the answer as precisely correct as words will allow. At that point, it becomes necessary to state something along the lines of, "It's not of description of samadhi, but a test for whether samadhi occurred at some specified past moment."

In either case, the test doesn't really describe samadhi more than to the least degree possible. The test is akin to asking someone, "Did you smell smoke yesterday?" Big difference between the smell of smoke and even smoke, let alone fire.

The test cannot detect something happening now. Only whether something happened before now.

For all it's inadequacies, it's a whole lot more reliable way of helping someone to figure out whether they have had an experience of samadhi than anything else I've seen or heard tried. It especially beasts trying to describe samadhi to someone, then, in effect, asking them whether they understood what you were talking about well enough to correctly answer the question. And it sure beats trying to explain the causes of samadhi to someone, then expecting them to figure out how the causes might have resulted in the experience they had.

Sure, and I wasn't being critical. Though there are a wide range of "spiritual" experiences, and they don't necessarily conform to the samadhi-type definition you provided.
It's about clarity. And about having an open mind to other people's "spiritual" experiences, which might be quite different to yours.

 

[Martin]

Yes. Equinimity. (For that particular state of consciousness through the directed thought associated with the first rupa jhana that triggered the jhana cycle.) You know it and recognize it for what it is, and can sit easily and steadily with that knowledge without any junkie-like behavior.

So are you there yet? Nothing bothers you?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yes. Equinimity. (For that particular state of consciousness through the directed thought associated with the first rupa jhana that triggered the jhana cycle.) You know it and recognize it for what it is, and can sit easily and steadily with that knowledge without any junkie-like behavior.

That sounds yabba dabba doo.

 

[crossfire]

Going by that description a person who reaches this fourth state is no longer subject to what we call personality problems. They won't have Borderline or Narc or Anxiety etc.

In the Christian tradition, I can see the communion of eating the bread (Christ's flesh) and drinking the wine (Christ's blood) as this Jhana cycle of partaking of Christ's teachings (bread/flesh) and making them a part of your being (eating/individuation) accompanied by the blood/wine of the bliss of the jhanas. Many people thought the early Christians were drunk on new wine (via the Dionysus tradition) when in fact they had not yet reached the fourth rupa jhana of equinimity, and were exhibiting drunken/junkie behavior.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In the Christian tradition, I can see the communion of eating the bread (Christ's flesh) and drinking the wine (Christ's blood) as this Jhana cycle of partaking of Christ's teachings (bread/flesh) and making them a part of your being (eating/individuation) accompanied by the blood/wine of the bliss of the jhanas. Many people thought the early Christians were drunk on new wine (via the Dionysus tradition) when in fact they had not yet reached the fourth rupa jhana of equinimity, and were exhibiting drunken/junkie behavior.

That is new information for me. I have been checking out the orthodox practices, just a little; so I may hear something about that soon. I'm also aware of some forms of meditation in churches and something they call 'Ecstasy'. Next time I encounter something about it I'll remember what you're saying about the 3rd jhana.

 

[crossfire]

So are you there yet? Nothing bothers you?

I stumbled on jhana practice without knowing what it was long before I studied Buddhism. I was a spiritual junkie. I don't want to see others suffer as spiritual junkies out of the same ignorance I had to work through.

 

[crossfire]

That is new information for me. I have been checking out the orthodox practices, just a little; so I may hear something about that soon. I'm also aware of some forms of meditation in churches and something they call 'Ecstasy'. Next time I encounter something about it I'll remember what you're saying about the 3rd jhana.

The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa by Gian Lorenzo Bernini:
click on thumbnail for larger picture

 

[Brickjectivity]

I stumbled on jhana practice without knowing what it was long before I studied Buddhism. I was a spiritual junkie. I don't want to see others suffer as spiritual junkies out of the same ignorance I had to work through.

Its amazing that you just walked into it. Perhaps it is related to your self discipline to stay awake at night and sleep during the day, which is pretty hard core.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa by Gian Lorenzo Bernini:
click on thumbnail for larger picture
View attachment 47233

I'm thinking more along the lines of Ignatius of Loyola. I once read a biography about him, and he practiced some sort of meditation in which he had visions. I think it was called 'ecstasy'. He would envision the flames of hell among other things. He founded the Jesuit order.

 

[crossfire]

Its amazing that you just walked into it. Perhaps it is related to your self discipline to stay awake at night and sleep during the day, which is pretty hard core.

I had PMS. I wanted to know the nature of the PMS, so I meditated while in the throws of PSM (easier said than done) in order to recognize and identify the actual hormonal triggers and separate them from the psychological effects the hormones triggered. I spent two years on this project, and experienced jhana bliss during my studies. Luckily(?), I could blame the junkie-behavior on the PMS...maybe not so luckily....

 

[crossfire]

I'm thinking more along the lines of Ignatius of Loyola. I once read a biography about him, and he practiced some sort of meditation in which he had visions. I think it was called 'ecstasy'. He would envision the flames of hell among other things. He founded the Jesuit order.

Ask the Jesuits about him.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I had PMS. I wanted to know the nature of the PMS, so I meditated while in the throws of PSM (easier said than done) in order to recognize and identify the actual hormonal triggers and separate them from the psychological effects the hormones triggered. I spent two years on this project, and experienced jhana bliss during my studies. Luckily(?), I could blame the junkie-behavior on the PMS...maybe not so luckily....

That's super cool.

 

[crossfire]

That's super cool.

Nasty ol' hormones!