Zelensky declares martial law

[F1fan]

How, in a thread that has Putin as a subject, can you claim the American Right is totalitarian? Yes, some are, but they themselves aren't. Try talking to some Russians who lost their job due to being against this war what a totalitarian regime is actually like.

We in the USA are fortunate enough to have just edged by a president would would be happy to be very much like Russia. It's disturbing that about 40% of voters approve. Russians haven't had the opportunity to decide who their president is as the USA has. Let's hope it stays that way.

Rights are harder to attain than lose. Citizens everywhere need to understand that if leaders don't value and respect broad freedoms and liberties (which means compromises in person freedom, but also expansion in certain liberties) then the future is destined for conflict (see Jan 6 as an example).

 

[F1fan]

You cannot be a liberal and support totalitarian policies.

I am liberal and don't support totalitarian polices.

I do support temporary policies that help maintain order and stability during war. For example Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the US Civil War and this was highly criticized. But it was an extraordinary situation during war and it was only temporary. This is similar to what Zelenskyy is doing.

If he was doing this in peace time it would be questionable.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How does he do it? It's called being invaded by a much larger nation and being presented with a real existentialist threat. If they are pro-Russia that does mean pro-those who are aggressively invading.
It's that "in case of emergency" thing.

No. It's like being invaded and the Republicans suddenly eliminate the Democrats.

Oh...wait... let me relish the thought for a moment.

 

[Lyndon]

Of course not. I get bombarded with BBC push alerts and it's mentioned nothing of this.

you're full of it, its all there clear as day if you read it every day, and much more credible reporting than most sources

The BBC live feed has like 50 Ukraine stories a day, I'm sure you get notifications for every single one, no??

 

[F1fan]

No. It's like being invaded and the Republicans suddenly eliminate the Democrats.

Oh...wait... let me relish the thought for a moment.

We will have to wait for the 2022 midterms.

 

[F1fan]

you're full of it, its all there clear as day if you read it every day, and much more credible reporting than most sources

I've not seen any reporting on this either, but given citizens are being murdered by the hundreds every day it's not a huge headline. And there is a functional purpose for this policy, similar to what Lincoln did.

 

[Nimos]

This means that if I am a journalist supporting Putin, I cant go there to see what's going on.

I don't know how that works. I mean the country is in the middle of a war. They obviously won't allow random press people running around spotting targets for the Russians. Likewise I doubt the Russians would allow the press to do the same for the Ukrainians.

My guess is that you need to have a clearance or apply as a press person and that you most likely are going to be assigned some security people that guide and follow you around. And if you want to go certain places they will either grant it or deny it.

But I doubt that either side would just allow the press to go around doing what the hell the feel like and taking pictures or interview people as they please.

Only guessing here, but I think you are correct that they probably wouldn't allow just any Russian press to go there, knowing that these are under the control of the Russian government, I don't think they are that stupid to be honest. And at some point one can ask if they are actually the press or merely propaganda people. I do think that if you are a well known independent news channel that you will have no issues getting in there even if you are Russian, but as you recall all of those Putin had banned so..

 

[Shadow Wolf]

you're full of it, its all there clear as day if you read it every day, and much more credible reporting than most sources

The BBC live feed has like 50 Ukraine stories a day, I'm sure you get notifications for every single one, no??

I'm full of it, but you can only claim a credible source agrees with a bogus source?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No. It's like being invaded and the Republicans suddenly eliminate the Democrats.

Oh...wait... let me relish the thought for a moment.

Not even comparable.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not even comparable.

Yes it is comparable.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes it is comparable.

No, as the parties are pro-Russia. That makes a crucial difference, and we cannot ignore this bit of information. If a country is invaded then aiding and supporting the invading country is supporting and aiding the invading country.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes it is comparable.

Ok, lets say Liechtenstein invades America. Neither party is particularly pro or anti Liechtenstein, with many politicians probably not having heard of it before and not knowing where it is on a map.
If the ruling party bans the other, this is in no way comparable to what's going on in Ukraine. But if the Dems supported Liechtenstein and the Reps banned them then it would be more comparable to Ukraine. But still not because we only have two parties.

 

[Lyndon]

If you have facebook, this covers it well, both the banning of the 11 political parties, and the takeover of independent media and television
https://fb.watch/bXQ--v2y9u/

 

[Kooky]

Every nation works on surviving and maintaining stability, and it's at all times. Having totalitarian policies, interestingly, is not necessary. Anybody who excuses totalitarianism in the name of survival or stability is probably a totalitarian themselves.

Economic systems are intrinsically totalitarian in nature, so all states and legal systems contain a totalitarian element that we cannot get rid of.

 

[mangalavara]

Economic systems are intrinsically totalitarian in nature, so all states and legal systems contain a totalitarian element that we cannot get rid of.

I am intrigued. Could you explain how a particular economic system (your choice of any of them) is intrinsically totalitarian?

 

[Kooky]

I am intrigued. Could you explain how a particular economic system (your choice of any of them) is intrinsically totalitarian?

A totalitarian system is one that intrudes into all aspects of people's lives, regardless of whether they want it or not; further, totalitarian systems are held up by various forms of power, violence, and surveillance, both legal and extralegal.

In this sense, our capitalist economic system is to a degree totalitarian: It necessarily penetrates all aspects of our lives, it is backed by the force of law (property law etc.) and extralegal means of power and surveillance (corporate ads and surveillance). Further, participation in our economic system is, in essence, compulsory - for example, all economic activity needs to be framed in terms of private property bound to specific individuals, and even a retreat from such a system already requires one to have participated in it to some degree (e.g. by using one's own wealth and private property).

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Further, participation in our economic system is, in essence, compulsory - for example, all economic activity needs to be framed in terms of private property bound to specific individuals, and even a retreat from such a system already requires one to have participated in it to some degree (e.g. by using one's own wealth and private property).

That is true..
However, it is not 'totalitarian' in the sense that all opposition to the political party that governs is stifled by military means.

 

[Kooky]

That is true..
However, it is not 'totalitarian' in the sense that all opposition to the political party that governs is stifled by military means.

That definition I would find needlessly restrictive, as it rules out a large number of authoritarian regimes commonly considered totalitarian in nature.

 

[metis]

So what are your thoughts about this?

“Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky declares martial law, makes all opposition to his government a crime, and takes control of the free press and turns it into state controlled media.


Put your feelings about Russia off to the side for just a moment, and focus on what Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky is doing, right now, in his country and to his people. In one fell swoop, Zelensky has 1) declared martial law, 2). seized control of the press and put it under the control of the state, and 3). banned all political parties other than his own. In other words, Zelensky is now an unopposed dictator who is now running Ukraine just like the way that Putin runs Russia. Awake yet?”

Shock As Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky Declares Martial Law, Seizes Control Of All Media And Outlaws All Political Opposition To His Own Party

Complete nonsense, and that's the nice words for the above.

 

[Lyndon]

Complete nonsense, and that's the nice words for the above.

Actually if you follow he news, they are all true statements