yuvgotmel & NordicBearskin: Egyptian beliefs and the Kabbalah

[yuvgotmel]

This thread is created to discuss and learn about the Egyptian system of Balance (as told through the mythologies) and the Kabbalah, which originated in Egypt.

For the record, Nordic posted these links (in the chat room):
http://www.kemet.org/home.html
http://www.per-ankh.org/
http://www.per-heh.org/
http://www.hwt-hrw.com/
http://www.cesidaho.org/
http://www.inkemetic.org/index.htm
http://www.ecauldron.com/reconegypt.php
http://altreligion.about.com/od/kemet/Kemet.htm
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/regulus_antares/heliacal_risings_and_settings_of.htm
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Nordic...I'm going to wait for you to respond to see how we should start this discussion out.

By the way... Good Idea though! I know that there are probably others who will benefit from this thread as well!

 

[Mr. Hair]

Hola!

As you seem to be more experienced at these kind of discussions, I was thinking of letting you define the exact where and why-fores of it all, but as this is meant to be more of an exchange of ideas rather then a linguistic food fight, I shouldn't think we'd need any of the usual restrictions. Our vast stores of mutual common sense alone should help keep things ticking over...

Now, onto the central thrust of the entire affair.

I did have a vague idea of first outlining the various integral aspects of Kemetic mythology (such as the creation of time and space, the role and nature of the Netjer, the reflections inherent within existence and so forth) and how they fit together; as well as including a very brief overview of the Kemetic faith as it was and as it is now. Next, to delve deeper into particular myths (say, such as the betrayal of Sekhmet, the resurrection of Asir, the various power struggles and exchanges between the Netjer and mankind and so forth) which embody a particular perspective and representation of these aspects, and then finally bring it all together and talk about how and what they suggest, and the different understandings that can arise based on these suggestions, about the nature of balance within and without the universe and mankind. (An issue of great importance to those Ancient Egyptians)

I am, however, fine with however you want to do things; I'm not even sure if that's what you wanted to talk about. I await your response.

------

Lastly, I do have a couple of caveats I should mention. First, I'm still relatively new and unknowing about Ancient Egyptian mythology, and this coupled with our incomplete understanding of the Kemetic faith (there's a reason they call it a 'reconstructionalist' religion) means I shouldn't be taken as an authoritative source on anything really. The second would simply be that the Kemetic faith and mythology, like every other, was hardly comprised of a single, static and homogeneous group. I'd suggest you have some rather large grains of salt handy... *smiles*

In any case, I look forward to things to come! <

(Oh, and those links were just to provide a basic background to everything. Use them as much or as little as you see fit)

 

[yuvgotmel]

That all sounds sweet to me. As far as "debate rules," I agree no restrictions are needed here. My goal is simply to be educated.

Since autumn of 2005, I have been having sporadic visions of different things pertaining to Egypt. And, since coming to a more-recent conclusion about monotheism, I'm very interested in the pantheistic system of balance.

However, the Egyptian beliefs have been a little difficult for me to learn, because:

1) I have not put too much time into memorizing all the gods/goddesses and their familial lines, interactions, life/deaths, reasons for being and associations with other natural things; and

2) The information--available on the web--about the Egyptian beliefs show that the gods/goddesses and their roles changed from region to region and throughout history. Therefore, the fluidity of the Egyptian beliefs has been slightly confusing.
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I suspect though, as you write about the creation myths of Egypt, among other things, it will begin to make more sense (to me) through the filter of the Kabbalah too. Here is why:

"The principal ingredients of the magical system are the source of reference which is the Tree of Life of the Qabalists, and the hieratic religion of the sacerdotal caste of Egypt. There is, I might mention--leaving the reader to interpret as he will--the legend that the Qabalah was received by Moses as a sacred trust on Sinai, and that he handed it down to Joshua, who delivered it to the Judges, and they to the Sanhedrin, until finally it was seized upon and elaborated by the Tanaim and the later Qabalistic Rabbis. Other people firmly maintain that if ever such a person as Moses existed historically, and if the Qabalah and its corollaries emanated from him, then he obtained it from the Egyptian priests whom he indubitably studied in the Nile temples. Few other countries in the world, except India perhaps, can boast of so eloquent a chronicle of mystic and magical tradition as Egypt, which rightly has been styled the Mother of Magic. Whether or not the Qabalah is actually derived from the Egyptians or any other people is a moot point, and despite legend and fanciful speculation there is no authenticated historical evidence of any substance in this direction. Yet the practical Theurgy of the Egyptians harmonizes remarkably well with the philosophical theories of the Qabalah, and the experience of a multitude of Magicians tends to the beliefs that there hardly be a more suitable or satisfactory combination.

Hence a presentation of the underlying principle of the universe as conceived by the Magicians, and a study of which must form the basis of all practical work, will here be given."

"The Tree of Life: An Illustrated Study in Magic," by Israel Regardie, pp. 41~43
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The Sephirot (the "Tree of Life")--as taught through the Kabbalah--can be a somewhat-complicated system to learn. I've been studying for years; and it was sort of divinely thrown in my lap. [That's an interesting story too.] Yet, even for me, I've found the system to be so all-inclusive that I feel, at times, to have only scratched the surface. Although I may have "picked up on it" quicker than others, the Kabbalah requires a continued expansion of consciousness to be able to learn more of it. And that is why I'm here.

As far as the Kabbalistic creation myth goes, most people are aware of it, as told in Genesis (of the Bible). As a Kabbalist, I have spent years of study on the first (and second) chapters of Genesis.

As this thread unfolds, please feel free to ask me lots of questions. My goal for this thread is to share information. ...And--if we are real brainiacs, we could might even be ingenious enough to restore more parts of the Egyptian beliefs using the Kabbalah!

 

[Mr. Hair]

Avast! (A vast what?)

Since autumn of 2005, I have been having sporadic visions of different things pertaining to Egypt.

I'm intrigued. Can you tell me a little more about these visions?

And, since coming to a more-recent conclusion about monotheism, I'm very interested in the pantheistic system of balance.

Well, the Kemetic system in itself isn't really pantheistic, nor is it really theistic. The conceptions of the divine it holds tend to be somewhat ambiguous and, as you said, fluid. (Part of the problem arises from the difficulty in translating the term Netjer; it tends to be read as meaning either 'Gods' or 'Forces of Nature', neither of which on its own is entirely adequate) If pushed, I tend to (somewhat cautiously) fall back on the concept of Monolatry, which I feel captures the essence of both how the Netjer were understood back then, and what they mean to me, today.

The Kemetic Orthodox faith, both in its modern and ancient practice, is a monolatrous religion... Monolatry is a special form of polytheism, having a multi-god structure still providing the possibility of understanding all divine beings as part of one divine source. A monolatrous religion professes one divine force (Netjer in the Kemetic language, meaning "divine power") that is in turn comprised of other separate, yet interlinked aspects, like a team can be defined both as one entity (the sum of its parts) and by individual members themselves. The "gods and goddesses" of Ancient Egypt, while clearly differentiated from each other in some respects and not as clearly in others, also each represent an aspect of Netjer, as Its Names (after the practice of recognizing Netjer "in Its Name of..." in ritual invocations). TheNames of Netjer are in addition to being individual entities, also representative aspects of the Self-Created One, and are parts of that whole Being. Each Name of Netjer, like the parts of the human body, has differing structure and function, yet each part is required to constitute the entire Person.

An adequate, though still (for me) slightly anachronistic, definition.

Another part of the problem is that the Ancient Egyptian system and way of life tended to be rather different and removed from our own, and was one which our contemporary conceptual understandings find difficult to appropriate and define. Often, there has been a tendency for the Kemetic faith to be used to reflect prevailing opinions and prejudices. (For example, in the 17th and 18th centuries it was generally accepted that it was essentially a rational monotheistic faith, and merely clouded by external and 'barbaric' polytheistic aspects)

Even today there still exists discord amongst scholars and followers about the exacting nature of the divine as depicted with the Kemetic faith, and I'd say most still refract that understanding around themselves to some degree. (Including myself, and I'd argue that such adaptability is necessary for it to continue being a living faith) So, to have a little confusion is understandable, I know I have.

However, the Egyptian beliefs have been a little difficult for me to learn, because:
1) I have not put too much time into memorizing all the gods/goddesses and their familial lines, interactions, life/deaths, reasons for being and associations with other natural things;

Actually, as the Kemetic faith has always tended towards more the cultic aspects rather then the scriptural, and given the fluid and fluctuating nature and roles of the Netjer; I personally don&#8217;t see such knowledge as necessary for understanding the underlying nature of the faith and mythology, though it is an undeniably useful aspect, particularly when discussing specific elements of it. (And one which I'll certainly go into more detail of when we start the discussion proper)

the fluidity of the Egyptian beliefs has been slightly confusing.

I can certainly understand that. *smiles*

As this thread unfolds, please feel free to ask me lots of questions. My goal for this thread is to share information.

Oh, absolutely, I look forward to learning a great deal from this conversation.

...And--if we are real brainiacs, we could might even be ingenious enough to restore more parts of the Egyptian beliefs using the Kabbalah!

Well, perhaps; t'would certainly be an interesting endeavour...

So then, shall we begin?

 

[yuvgotmel]

Awesome!

The term and definition of Monolatry is new for me; and it explains my understanding of the Elohim--like a "Godhead"--as well as the attributes found in the Sephirot (the Tree of Life).

I'm glad that question has been answered in the beginning of this thread, because I feel that it's an important part of understanding the ancient Egyptian and Kabbalistic systems. As you probably know, many people are taught that the Egyptians believed in a pantheon of gods and goddesses. And too, the Kabbalists have been accused of somewhat the same thing at times (in reference to the teachings on the Elohim).

If I understand this correctly, the Egyptian gods and goddesses are not necessarily independent from each other rather their actions and interactions define the cosmic method of maintaining balance in a sort of cause-and-effect way, whereby the Egyptian myth is that method (of balance) explained through story form. Would that be correct?

That may sound like a stupid question, but I want to make sure that my understanding is correct before we proceed. I don't want to get confused by my definition if, in case, it is something different.

The Kabbalistic system is not a religion; it is a very precise process of personal spiritual enlightenment (as seen in the Sephirot) as well as something much broader--perhaps even cosmic (if one wanted to use that term). Through stories and commentary in "The Zohar," the Kabbalah teaches the interactive world of spirit & matter, heaven & earth, and man & creation. The stories in "The Zohar" show that the Kabbalistic sages understood and practiced Cledonomancy (a divination method famous in ancient Greece). I suspect that the Egyptian stories of cause-and-effect in their natural environment are somewhat similar in that the stories show the ancient views/perceptions of interaction with their world. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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You asked to know about some of the visions I have had pertaining to Egypt. The visions started soon after I recovered from viral meningitis. The infection in my brain and spinal cord nearly killed me; and I was hospitalized. After recovery, I noticed that I was "smarter" (for lack of a better word). My mind wouldn't stop thinking; and I was putting ideas together that were quite brilliant (as I have been told). So much information came to me during that time, which lasted about five months. [I wrote a series of articles on Time, which has been read by some professionals, who all agree it should be published. And another theory of mine, from the same time frame, has sense been discovered to be true by another person--a mathematician.]

All that was stated to show my state of mind at the time, but not to necessarily give validity to the visions. This might seem truly off-the-wall...but what follows is the account of the first occurrence of a series of visions pertaining to Egypt.

In or around October of 2005, I began to perceive a series of, what some might call, “visions.” The thoughts and images which came in my mind during those times related to Egypt, ancient DNA re-engineering, the (Egyptian) story of creation, serpent consciousness, extraordinary entities, details of Egyptian rituals pertaining to mummification and reanimation, alien craft, the bridge of alien craft, a particular controlling mechanism for alien craft, details concerning a particular tall grey, A.I. development, interplanetary battles and consciousness, laboratories, multiple universes, and much more.

It was a blend of old, new and futuristic. Some of what I perceived in those moments has been verified through extraneous ancient texts that I have read since those series of “visions.” Other pieces of information have been discovered through reading accounts from other contactees, etc. It is of little interest of mine if what will be stated in this account is believed or not. My goal is to simply put the information out there. For quite some time, I have kept semi-silent on these matters and others, due to the awareness that they are not accepted and shared among a greater collective mind.

Among the first in a series of what-some-may-call “visions” pertained to the ancient Egyptian account of creation. One evening, while laying in my bed looking over the images in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, my senses began to overlap, to the point where smell, taste, texture, even emotions became intertwined and revealed things to me in the written hieroglyphs. It was as if I could read the hieroglyphs. Even though, I am aware that the Papyrus of Oni is a collection of magical spells for assistance in the afterlife, the thoughts that were coming to me, while looking at the glyphs, told the story of creation Egyptian style. To be specific, and for your own investigation, I was looking at Plate 27 in “The Egyptian Book of the Dead: Going Forth by Day” by Dr. Raymond Faulkner.

Here is an account of the thoughts that came to me at that time:

I had never paid much attention to the hieroglyphs before that evening, at least not the tiny script that is. Other than the picture glyphs, my mind had formerly glazed over the smaller script writings. As I was looking at the script, they came alive in a way; and I couldn’t stop stroking the page of text. At that time, I wanted to pull the letters off of the page and hug them. The feeling was so strong. I even had the thought/notion to make love to the letters, which is an odd thing to think. Soon, it seemed like I was reading the script; and it seemed as if I could comprehend the story. What came to mind at that time was that the Egyptians were involved with aiding in the creation of man. The thoughts came to me how the serpent was created. The thought came to me that God had left this planet, in ways. And too, the serpent was left behind. The thoughts came to me, as it seemed I was reading the scripts, how the animals came to the serpent one-by-one. The serpent was the only living spirit left on earth. The serpent was the only thing possible that could be used for creation, or in order to create a living thing. So the animals each procreated with the serpent spirit. And then, they would each die. With each death, they would take on a new form of man. Then the man would die and go back into another animal. And each time the man would cycle from animal back into a man, he would gain another portion of his body. Therefore, each part of the body is half man but first animal. The last step in the creation of the man’s body, as I read in the script or so it seemed, is the head. And once the man has his head, he can ascend. He becomes like the gods.

Immediately following that particular event, there was a new round of “visions.” It pertained to angels (which may be considered aliens or gods). I saw them in what I perceived as spaceships. Their purpose has been and is the procreation with man and animals in order to bring back to life the waves of leftover consciousness. They have been doing this for man’s survival. It should be understood that, what I perceived, was an act of compassion and a great sense of joy in the work, as they have been doing this for the preservation of human and animal existence.

Also, at that time, I saw images (or rather my own interpretations or values placed to create form) of what I perceived as a whole race of sphinx-like creatures. They did not all look like sphinxes or cherubim, but each were very unique and made of a collage of animal-like features. They were very wondrous to look at: very beautiful, sentient, and large, yet varying in size and height. These creatures, also, were aboard what I perceived, at that time, to be a spacecraft.
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