You're trans-...what?

[Saint Frankenstein]

And it takes months of therapy before hormones are even prescribed, and you have to be on hormones for at least 12 months and live full time as your identified sex for no less than 12 months before the letters of recommendation for surgery can be signed.

Depends on the doctor and the therapist. Not all of them follow the Standards of Care and some of them waive parts of it or follow an informed consent model. My doctor agreed to testosterone therapy on my first appointment with her and all she required was a letter from my psych nurse.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hey guys, I heard a word "trans-trender" in Youtube. Is it a derogatory/offensive term?

Yeah. It's a term that's mostly used by transphobic radical feminists for younger trans people, because they think that transitioning is just a fad that's being encouraged by the media and the trans rights movement.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Yeah. It's a term that's mostly used by transphobic radical feminists for younger trans people, because they think that transitioning is just a fad that's being encouraged by the media and the trans rights movement.

Hmm, I didn't know there were transphobic feminists! But that's a different subject. Subject point is reached.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have to disagree with you there. Of course society's expectations in terms of gender and the body make dysphoria worse

I meant that more in the generalized sense, referring to what has been proposed, such as the "quit acting like a girl." The roles and norms may trigger dysphoria, but they themselves do not cause it - that would be all the biological stuff we are learning about and uncovering. And there is also the point that not all transsexuals live and breathe typical gender roles and norms. Sure, being able to pass is a concern for just about anyone, but it's far from reality that all trans-men are hulking machos pumping iron all or that all trans-women are housewives.
It is complex, but if norms were really the case then we would all be either effeminate men or masculine women, and we would probably find more hyper-masculine trans-men and hyper-feminine trans-women.

It makes you feel like you're second rate, at best, compared to cis men and women, that you'll never compare. I struggle with that quite a bit.

I know others may see me as second rate, but it's never made me feel that way.

Depends on the doctor and the therapist. Not all of them follow the Standards of Care and some of them waive parts of it or follow an informed consent model.

While that is true, it still stands that you can't just go to a doctor and request hormones. I don't believe the SoC should be followed to a T in all cases, but I do agree with it that you should have to be in therapy for awhile, to help better determine who should and shouldn't transition, and also the time requirement for living full time before you can have surgery.

Hey guys, I heard a word "trans-trender" in Youtube. Is it a derogatory/offensive term?

Yes. It's the belief that transitioning is somehow just a faddish trend, and it pretty much ignores the reality of hardships that are endured by transsexuals that are far too great for it to ever be just a fad/trend.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

It's not real. I don't mean "not valid" (tho it is true that one can't "transition species" etc) but rather that those communities don't really exist (except otherkin kind of, but that's basically a niche internet subculture).

You guys equate changing yourself with learning to love yourself, you see a dysfunction giving disorder as something to give in to in order to alleviate it, which is akin to self harm and suicide in someone with depression. It's a position that someone like me just can't understand, I'm sorry. I will continue to try and make my patients better and help them love themselves. But feel lucky if nothing else, cause most of us have to learn and deal with our dysfunction rather than giving in.

I'm very disappointed. You talk a lot about how the Left-Hand Path means transgressing taboos and going against nature, but if someone wants to go against their assigned gender that's a "dysfunction"? And it is literally exactly backwards to equate transitioning with suicide. Transsexuality isn't a disorder, gender dysphoria is, and transitioning is acknowledged as the most effective treatment. I hope you're not denying anyone treatment out of some refusal to adapt.

and as for that old TERF cliche that the existence of trans people is somehow enforcing gender norms, I have a friend who's FTM and a drag queen. What a statement like that really reveals is one's own stereotypes about how trans people present, such as thinking trans women are all hyperfeminine.

 

[1137]

It's not real. I don't mean "not valid" (tho it is true that one can't "transition species" etc) but rather that those communities don't really exist (except otherkin kind of, but that's basically a niche internet subculture).



I'm very disappointed. You talk a lot about how the Left-Hand Path means transgressing taboos and going against nature, but if someone wants to go against their assigned gender that's a "dysfunction"? And it is literally exactly backwards to equate transitioning with suicide. Transsexuality isn't a disorder, gender dysphoria is, and transitioning is acknowledged as the most effective treatment. I hope you're not denying anyone treatment out of some refusal to adapt.

and as for that old TERF cliche that the existence of trans people is somehow enforcing gender norms, I have a friend who's FTM and a drag queen. What a statement like that really reveals is one's own stereotypes about how trans people present, such as thinking trans women are all hyperfeminine.

Hi, welcome to the real world where words have meanings! A dysfunction is something that causes a person suffering. There's nothing wrong with having a dysfunction, and it's exactly what therapy and transition surgery attempt to address. It doesn't have Jack **** to do with any social norms, it has to do with whether a person can function or not. Can they eat, sleep, work, experience a range of emotions, are they forming relationships, are they hurting themselves, and infinite more questions have to be addressed. So lose the attitude and at least get the slightest little sliver of an education on the topic.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

(except otherkin kind of, but that's basically a niche internet subculture).

Otherkin practices have been around since way before the Internet. The name "otherkin" probably isn't that old, but many cultures around the world have practiced such things probably since before we were modern homo sapiens.

 

[freethinker44]

Otherkin practices have been around since way before the Internet. The name "otherkin" probably isn't that old, but many cultures around the world have practiced such things probably since before we were modern homo sapiens.

Are you putting things like 'spirit animals' and such in the same category as 'otherkin'? Because I don't think those are the same thing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know others may see me as second rate, but it's never made me feel that way.

Well, count yourself lucky. It effects people in different ways. Social standards definitely make my dysphoria worse. Much or even most of my dysphoria at this point is social, I'd say.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you putting things like 'spirit animals' and such in the same category as 'otherkin'? Because I don't think those are the same thing.

No, I am talking about people modifying their bodies in order to look more like an animal, such as a spirit animal, totem animal, a clan animal, and so on.

Well, count yourself lucky. It effects people in different ways. Social standards definitely make my dysphoria worse. Much or even most of my dysphoria at this point is social, I'd say.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes such things get me down, such as how gender roles and norms were strongly enforced by my parents when I was a child, or how I don't get "free pass" to do anything else any other woman could do, but it's more the fact of rejection and knowing that for the most part people do not accept me wholly and entirely that gets me down. But as far as letting people make me feel second rate, maybe because I had to learn in elementary school that such people and attitude are just not worth my time or energy, it just doesn't happen. But, I've also only really been concerned about social standards (regarding gender) and myself for a few years, during high school, which was also when I emotionally at the lowest point I've ever been. Other than that, it's just not a part of me to get too concerned or caught up with them, but, then again, I also have zero sense of fashion, I'm sometimes chided as being cold and insensitive, I sometimes get called a neo-Nazi just for listening to the music I do, and me being literal about things sometimes unnerves and bothers people. "Normal" people have judged me for so long that, for the most part, I lost the ability to care. I still poke myself in the face with an electrolysis needle and have put quite a bit of practice (and need much, much more) into developing a female voice, and I even like wearing makeup (probably because when applied right it significantly demasculinizes my face), but meeting expectations and norms just isn't something I do. (It may also be because I've known some fiery tempered and strong-willed women who really don't care about norms)

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Hi, welcome to the real world where words have meanings! A dysfunction is something that causes a person suffering. There's nothing wrong with having a dysfunction, and it's exactly what therapy and transition surgery attempt to address. It doesn't have Jack **** to do with any social norms, it has to do with whether a person can function or not. Can they eat, sleep, work, experience a range of emotions, are they forming relationships, are they hurting themselves, and infinite more questions have to be addressed. So lose the attitude and at least get the slightest little sliver of an education on the topic.

Dysphoria is a dysfunction; transition is the most effective treatment. I'm a bit confused, because it seems that earlier itt you were arguing that trans people should try and accept their assigned sex as opposed to getting treatment.

Otherkin practices have been around since way before the Internet. The name "otherkin" probably isn't that old, but many cultures around the world have practiced such things probably since before we were modern homo sapiens.

That is true - the concept of people with animal souls is a very, very old one. But I was referring to the modern otherkin community, which began (iirc) in the 90s and has been popularized a lot on tumblr in recent years.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is true - the concept of people with animal souls is a very, very old one. But I was referring to the modern otherkin community, which began (iirc) in the 90s and has been popularized a lot on tumblr in recent years.

Yeah, it's not really the same as the ancient animist and shamanic concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin

 

[Neo Deist]

I think I am transitional right now.
I like the music of Trans Siberian Orchestra.
I just did a bank transaction.
I've never had a broken transaxle.
I am somewhat of a transcendentalist.
I have to transcribe my reports at work.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I like the music of Trans Siberian Orchestra.

I've tried to like them, but they do just way too much Christmas music.

I have to transcribe my reports at work.

I've done the scribe part for a job before. I hoped it would help me get another scribe job, but it didn't.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Isn't there a music genre called trans? Is it cool?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Isn't there a music genre called trans? Is it cool?

I've heard of trance (which I think is cool), but I've never heard of this trans music. I've heard of the Trans-Siberian Orchestra (a blend of heavy metal and classical music, they're actually not too bad, but pretty much all they do are Christmas songs and albums), and the transgressive themes of industrial (a subgenre of rock and metal), but not trans.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I've heard of trance (which I think is cool), but I've never heard of this trans music. I've heard of the Trans-Siberian Orchestra (a blend of heavy metal and classical music, they're actually not too bad, but pretty much all they do are Christmas songs and albums), and the transgressive themes of industrial (a subgenre of rock and metal), but not trans.

Must have been trance then

Hey, you seem to know good deal about music. You're so cool!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're so cool!

Of course I am!

Hey, you seem to know good deal about music.

I gotta have some sort of life, lol.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Of course I am!

But who else other than me told you that, and how often?

I gotta have some sort of life, lol.

I wish I can say the same for myself. Good for you

 

[gnomon]

Gender norms do not contribute to gender dysphoria. There are also a number of transsexuals who do not uphold to these norms, and the requirements for treatment even dropped the part requiring someone adhere to and uphold traditional norms because there isn't any link between norms and gender dysphoria.

If you're a guy who acts feminine, but does not actually identify as female, then you can't transition. A woman can't transition just she was a tom boy as a girl. And various treatments without hormones and surgery have been tried, and have been pretty much just as successful as reparative therapy trying to change the sexual orientation of homosexuals. A guy who does identify as female can act feminine, but that doesn't address the issue of gender dysphoria.

That can be true, but many cultures have had more than two genders, and we still find evidence of transsexuals in those cultures.

First off....I'll admit I think I'm out of my depth here on this topic.

And actually looking a little bit deeper in some of the subjects I thought I knew before.....such as gender and sex being absolutely two different terms.......especially among cultures that showed opposite gender roles among the sexes.....I found them to be .....lacking.

While I still may harbor some feeling that cultural attitudes may contribute to gender dysphoria......I'm beginning to think otherwise.

I still think there is much deeper elements to the human condition than this dimorphistic thinking of male/female and man/woman gender sense and that cultural attitudes play a huge role but........I don't have the resources to spend at this moment.

I defer to those with the personal experience on this issue.