Your thoughts

[Kalidas]

Someone on my facebook news feed posted this. I can't quit explain why, but it bothers me.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....0-9/578602_10151184047833706_1185394313_n.jpg

I guess it's some statue made by some animals rights activist artist or something with this paragraph to accompany it

"Doesn't this look Ridiculous? Where's the baby calves?

This stunning sculpture by Liu Qiang is an accurate depiction of humanity’s use of, and utter dependence on other animals and, in particular, the savage and bizarre habit of consuming the breast milk from mothers of other species.

“Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals.”
- George Orwell"

 

[Madhuri]

I personally do not think that there is anything wrong with eating eggs or milk if the animals are treated ethically but unless someone keeps their own animals or a small farm, ethics are basically non-existent.

I've gone 2 weeks now without dairy products and intend to continue the rest of my life with very limited animal food products.

 

[Maya3]

I personally do not think that there is anything wrong with eating eggs or milk if the animals are treated ethically but unless someone keeps their own animals or a small farm, ethics are basically non-existent.

I've gone 2 weeks now without dairy products and intend to continue the rest of my life with very limited animal food products.

I feel the same. Though eggs are different, I think hens keep laying eggs no matter what during their life. So I feel ok eating them if they are pasture raised.
I don´t think that milk is actually a good thing for humans, it is made for the calf.
I love cheese though, and I always have milk in my coffee. I´ve tried coconut milk and almond milk, I love both, but not in my coffee.

The statue is powerful.

Maya

 

[Madhuri]

I like Oat milk and Quinoa and Chia seed milk but they taste horrible with coffee lol.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I think it's a powerful image, and pretty accurate.

:camp:

 

[Vinayaka]

We are the only species that drinks the milk of another species. That seems quite 'off''.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Cow is mother to us Hindus. She can feed her calf as well as us. Hail Mother Cow.

 

[Jainarayan]

I personally do not think that there is anything wrong with eating eggs or milk if the animals are treated ethically but unless someone keeps their own animals or a small farm, ethics are basically non-existent.

Same here. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating unfertilized eggs, which is how all commercial eggs are. Hens of any species of bird will lay eggs with or without a male. It's a seasonal hormonal thing. My parrot used to lay eggs every other season or so. She'd just drop them from her perch and not even look at them.

Such eggs are no more or no less exploitation of animals than dairy farming is. Consider we use commercial milk in abhishekams, for ghee, curds, a lot of Indian dishes (e.g. paneer dishes and curry gravies), and everything else. I've seen people bring gallons and gallons of commercial milk, labels on the containers, for abhishekam. Now the temple has its own goshala, and herd that it plans to use the milk from.

For a while now I've been using eggs from cageless chickens. Granted they are still mass farmed but I think are way better off than caged hens. When eating out, though, you can't control where the eggs come from. And eggs are even used for eggplant parmigana.

I've gone 2 weeks now without dairy products and intend to continue the rest of my life with very limited animal food products.

The best we can do is the best we can do.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Like others, I see no issue with consuming eggs or milk.

As for the "milk isn't good for humans" argument, on one hand it is true. Most people's need for milk ends after childhood. I think it's actually why many adults are lactose intolerant. Or, at least, lactose resistant. However, there is a minority of adults whom, not only are lactose tolerant, but still gain health benefits from milk and other dairy products well into adulthood. The majority of people who are in this category hail from Northwestern and Northern Europe, and those with such ancestry (such as myself) can still digest and gain nutrition from milk.

Sources: Most Adults Can't Digest Milk - ABC News;

Lactose intolerance seems linked to ancestral struggles with harsh climate and cattle diseases, Cornell study finds | Cornell Chronicle

With that said, as long as one can still get nutrients from milk, and as long as (theoretically and ideally) cows are not abused or harmed in the dairy farming process, then I see no real issue.

As for the artwork? I get, and like, the message, but I think it's just a little too over-generalized.

 

[Kalidas]

We are the only species that drinks the milk of another species. That seems quite 'off''.

It seems "off" because it is downright incorrect.

Perfect example: Ants, Ants? Yes Ants

Ants protect Aphids, feed them, move them, tend to their needs, clean them and in return? They eat the white milky/nectar like substance they release. If that isn't animal husbandry I don't know what is.

Lets look at humane cow treatment. The cow is fed, protected, given a home, and plenty of happy time. In return they produce milk, and the bull helps lough the land. It seems like man is just "taking", but in all actuality it is symbiotic. Both parties receive mutual benefit from working with one another.

Also a cow can continue to give milk after the calf has stopped drinking it. Women used to do it all the time, giving milk to young babies for mothers that couldn't produce before the creation of formula.

To the thought that milk is useless to adults. This may or may not be true(it is not entirely true at all actually) but lets assume it is 100% true. We eat all kinds of things that are useless to our existence. Many things we use to flavor our food seasoning, salt, sugar all of these offer little in the way of nutrients but offer much in the way of pleasure.

I feel as long as the Cow, Chicken, bee, goat, etc etc etc is taken good care of and treated kindly there is no problem. It's a symbiotic relationship, relationships like this occur in the animal kingdom all the time.

 

[Vinayaka]

In traditional Hinduism, eggs are considered meat. Milk on the other hand, is considered vegetarian. Still, I don't think we have to overdo it, and I have no problem with vegans.

I use milk, about a litre a week, both in coffee, and in home abhishekham daily.

Cattle, left to their own, just like humans, will adjust the lactating process, depending on demand. As a calf (or any mammal baby) naturally weans off milk, so too does the mother produce less.

 

[Kalidas]

In traditional Hinduism, eggs are considered meat. Milk on the other hand, is considered vegetarian. Still, I don't think we have to overdo it, and I have no problem with vegans.

I use milk, about a litre a week, both in coffee, and in home abhishekham daily.

Cattle, left to their own, just like humans, will adjust the lactating process, depending on demand. As a calf (or any mammal baby) naturally weans off milk, so too does the mother produce less.

I know what the traditional practice of Hinduism says about Eggs. Not to sound rude, but people from the past can be incorrect.

I have no problem with Vegans either. I may one day go that path simply because finding any company that treats animals kindly anymore is just nearly impossible. Yet spreading information that is at best incorrect to pass judgement on others bothers me. Believe and live how you want, but start passing judgement on people and I get annoyed. Use false facts to justify your judgement and I get downright ******.

 

[Vinayaka]

I know what the traditional practice of Hinduism says about Eggs. Not to sound rude, but people from the past can be incorrect.

I have no problem with Vegans either. I may one day go that path simply because finding any company that treats animals kindly anymore is just nearly impossible. Yet spreading information that is at best incorrect to pass judgement on others bothers me. Believe and live how you want, but start passing judgement on people and I get annoyed. Use false facts to justify your judgement and I get downright ******.

I'm truly sorry if you felt I was passing judgement. I merely stated the Hindu tradition on where eggs are classified. Outside of Hinduism, the debate thickens. But it really is to each his own.

 

[Kalidas]

I'm truly sorry if you felt I was passing judgement. I merely stated the Hindu tradition on where eggs are classified. Outside of Hinduism, the debate thickens. But it really is to each his own.

Nah not you. The general post with it's judgemental undertone of how it spreads its message bothers me.

You were just stating how eggs were viewed in the past. You were neither agreeing nor denying. You certainly did not judge.

 

[Valjean]

It seems "off" because it is downright incorrect.

Perfect example: Ants, Ants? Yes Ants

Ants protect Aphids, feed them, move them, tend to their needs, clean them and in return? They eat the white milky/nectar like substance they release. If that isn't animal husbandry I don't know what is.

Lets look at humane cow treatment. The cow is fed, protected, given a home, and plenty of happy time. In return they produce milk, and the bull helps lough the land. It seems like man is just "taking", but in all actuality it is symbiotic. Both parties receive mutual benefit from working with one another.

Also a cow can continue to give milk after the calf has stopped drinking it. Women used to do it all the time, giving milk to young babies for mothers that couldn't produce before the creation of formula.

To the thought that milk is useless to adults. This may or may not be true(it is not entirely true at all actually) but lets assume it is 100% true. We eat all kinds of things that are useless to our existence. Many things we use to flavor our food seasoning, salt, sugar all of these offer little in the way of nutrients but offer much in the way of pleasure.

I feel as long as the Cow, Chicken, bee, goat, etc etc etc is taken good care of and treated kindly there is no problem. It's a symbiotic relationship, relationships like this occur in the animal kingdom all the time.

I take your point, Kalidas, but, especially in the industrial husbandry of developed countries, cattle are not treated well.

Most dairy cattle lead short, unpleasant lives and become beef at 1/5 of their normal lifespans. Their calves (cows need periodic insemination to maintain milk production) either replace them as milk machines, become veal, or live less than two years as beef cattle. http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/hsus-the-welfare-of-cows-in-the-dairy-industry.pdf

Other farmed animals fare no better: The Humane Farming Myth « Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary

Even in India, where cows are not factory farmed, a clandestine beef and leather industry exists. From today's Independant: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ake-leather-for-high-street-shops-724696.html

 

[Kalidas]

I take your point, Kalidas, but, especially in the industrial husbandry of developed countries, cattle are not treated well.

Most dairy cattle lead short, unpleasant lives and become beef at 1/5 of their normal lifespans. Their calves (cows need periodic insemination to maintain milk production) either replace them as milk machines, become veal, or live less than two years as beef cattle. http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/hsus-the-welfare-of-cows-in-the-dairy-industry.pdf

Other farmed animals fare no better: The Humane Farming Myth « Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary

Even in India, where cows are not factory farmed, a clandestine beef and leather industry exists. From today's Independant: How India's sacred cows are beaten, abused and poisoned to make leather for high street shops - Asia - World - The Independent

But that is not the argument the artist was trying to make. If it was I would agree 100%. We need to treat our farm animals far better. They are feeding us for GODS SAKES! But that argument and this one may be RELATED, but they are not the same.

 

[George-ananda]

More and more I'm thinking vegan is the best way to go but I'm just a Hindu-vegetarian (I eat dairy).

I wonder if the tradition of allowing dairy into the diet came from a time when cows were treated sacredly. Today, because of their humongous dairy industry, India has surpassed Brazil as the world's largest exporter of beef.

 

[Maya3]

I rather eat a fertilized egg from a hen that has been out in the dirt having a natural life with a rooster in it, than an unfertilized egg from a sad hen in a cage.

As for animal husbandry, we HAVE to take care of animals better. We HAVE to what people are doing now is horrible.

Kalidas, thanks for the reminder of the Ants, I forgot about that.

Maya

 

[Valjean]

Save the planet.
Just eat plants.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Eat plants (as if it is not life), that is the best, treat cows well and drink milk, and eat unfertilized eggs - IMHO, you have not committed any sin - Vaikuntha.