Your gods - eternal or ephemeral?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Please note: this is in the Pagan DIR

Just to note: ephemeral is a fancy way of saying temporary or finite. I just like the word and feel it should be used more often.

There are quite a few Pagan posters here representing a number of different traditions - some are revival, some are reconstructionist, some are Neopagan. For the many theistic Pagans out there, I wonder: do you believe the gods of your path or tradition (or even just the ones you worship if you're not of a solidly identifiable path) can live forever? Can they die? Are they immortal (as in can't die of old age) or truly indestructible? Any particular reason for believing as you do?

I'll start us off. I'm of the opinion the Olympians are temporary beings, mighty as they are. The stories tell of their parentage and while I don't take such stories too literally (I believe the Titans were merely an older pantheon of gods that the Olympian cults largely supplanted or absorbed) I do believe the myths tell us about the nature of the gods. The Iliad has Homer relaying the story of how Ares nearly dies when he's trapped in a jar by the giants Otus & Ephialtes so the lesson for me is that even the gods can die under the right circumstances. I believe they are immortal but not truly indestructible. The notion of gods like Dionysus dying and being reborn to me is a metaphor of how the world is cyclical, with all being renewed again.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

for me, there may be things that are immortal or eternal...but that is just a way to say beyond my comprehension. While I don't currently believe in deities, I suspect that any such less-than-omnimax entities are mortal and/or ephemeral compared to the universe...some may be short-lived even compared to humans...

and that doesn't even begin to get in the symbolic...

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

for me, there may be things that are immortal or eternal...but that is just a way to say beyond my comprehension. While I don't currently believe in deities, I suspect that any such less-than-omnimax entities are mortal and/or ephemeral compared to the universe...some may be short-lived even compared to humans...

and that doesn't even begin to get in the symbolic...

Thanks for your response, beenhere. I'm sorry to say I forgot that a lot of Pagans are animists so I forgot to take your position into account. I suppose though, that my questions can apply equally to spirits as to gods.

 

[Quintessence]

Spirits... gods... po-tay-to, po-tah-to in this one's book.

So I had some stuff typed up. And I deleted it all in favor of this:

I think it's important to remember that the idea of an eternal god comes specifically from classical monotheism. As expressed in that theology, the idea is foreign to Paganisms as far as I'm aware. Polytheistic theologies have ever been reflections of the world we live in, as the gods are that reality, and anyone can observe that reality is always changing and transforming. The notion of some fixed and stagnant "eternity" is just... really strange.

But what I really think about is complicated, because it deals with root ontological questions and my ontological perspective is complicated. I don't try to articulate it to others, for various reasons. And none of that matters anyway. What matters is how I am experiencing something in my current state of awareness. I can't say I really think in terms of "eternal vs ephemeral" at all. That's strange to me.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Thanks for your response, beenhere. I'm sorry to say I forgot that a lot of Pagans are animists so I forgot to take your position into account. I suppose though, that my questions can apply equally to spirits as to gods.

Yeah, I think so too. But since many of the spirits I relate to don't have names that can be shared, it would make it more difficult for me to answer questions about them...since I see most everything as a collective of spirits...I'm a collective, my car is a collective, when I drive my car we are a combined collective...a storm is a collective of a whole lot of spirits that get together to form a larger temporary spirit of the particular storm...maybe along with a storm god

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I think it's important to remember that the idea of an eternal god comes specifically from classical monotheism. As expressed in that theology, the idea is foreign to Paganisms as far as I'm aware.

Is it? Did the Romans not believe their own gods were eternal? Or am I thinking of 'perfect' i.e. without human-like foibles?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe They are eternal, as our souls are, but are subject to change and transformation like all things are. Even if the universe is cyclical, it never ends but merely changes form.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think it's important to remember that the idea of an eternal god comes specifically from classical monotheism. As expressed in that theology, the idea is foreign to Paganisms as far as I'm aware.

No, the Gods of Hellas were referred to as the Deathless Ones.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

do you believe the gods of your path or tradition (or even just the ones you worship if you're not of a solidly identifiable path) can live forever? Can they die? Are they immortal (as in can't die of old age) or truly indestructible? Any particular reason for believing as you do?

Hm. I usually click the button pretty fast, but I had to think about this. I don't have a tradition, unfortunately. I would say, though, that the spirits live forever. I never thought of it that way. I always thought that when you pass away, you are on earth (or however named) and you are watching over your family as spirit.

There is a affirmation quote I usually think about.

They live through us, basically. The physical spirits I've seen in my years and experienced, I'd assume they are still hanging around. It seems they stay in certain areas and people.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I believe They are eternal, as our souls are, but are subject to change and transformation like all things are. Even if the universe is cyclical, it never ends but merely changes form.

So you don't believe the gods' Titan lineage in the stories should be taken literally?

 

[Aštra’el]

"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under Heaven. A time to be born, and a time to die..."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So you don't believe the gods' Titan lineage in the stories should be taken literally?

Not literally. Personally, I take those stories as an allegory for the formation of the universe and the Earth. From going from a more hostile environment for life under the Titans to a hospitable environment for life under the Olympians.

Basically, I believe that the Gods transform, but don't "die".