OK, I'll answer them here: God is the most righteous being there is and he's the very definition of righteousness, hence nobody can be more righteous than him, or even equal him in that department
I'm agnostic about the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah being actual events, however I believe these accounts illustrate timeless truths and that we can speak as though they were true. Jesus's parables weren't true, but they conveyed timeless truths. Does that make him a liar? Of course not.
However, I believe the gospels are an actual historical record.
Thanks for being honest in answering these questions, and for giving an honest answer, as well. I appreciate that.
I'm glad to know that you believe the gospels to be an actual historical record of Jesus life, and ministry. So unlike some who profess Christianity, you accept that the miracles did occur? That's good.
What though if Jesus and his followers were not agnostic about the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah accounts? Would you accept their testimony to be truthful?
Did Jesus give a parable about the flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah?
What about Peter...
(2 Peter 2:4-10)
4 Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tartarus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.
5 And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.
6 And by reducing the cities of Sodʹom and Gomorrah to ashes, he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly people of things to come.
7 And he rescued righteous Lot, who was greatly distressed by the brazen conduct of the lawless people—
8 for day after day that righteous man was tormenting his righteous soul over the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling among them.
9 So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment,
10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority.. . .
Paul...
(Hebrews 11:4-8)
4 By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than that of Cain, and through that faith he received the witness that he was righteous, for God approved his gifts, and although he died, he s
till speaks through his faith.
5 By faith Enoch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him; for before he was transferred he received the witness that he had pleased God well.
6 Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.
7 By faith Noah, after receiving divine warning of things not yet seen, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that results from faith.
8 By faith Abraham, . . .
Jude...
(Jude 5-7)
5 Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that Jehovah, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those not showing faith.
6 And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.
7 In the same manner, Sodʹom and Gomorrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.
Did they give parables?
Are these not historical accounts, which some apparently are trying to erase?
Whose side should Christians take, would you say? Do we not have valid reasons for agreeing with Paul's words to young Timothy.?
(2 Timothy 3:14-17)
14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them
15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Paul refers to the Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures, as God-breathed, and truth. (1 Timothy 2:4-7)
Surely, the apostles are here confirming that Jesus did not lie when he said...
(Luke 17:26-30)
26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man:
27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building.
29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.
Yes, I agree with you
But there will always be differences of opinion about what it means and we need to use reason (which God has given us) to determine what interpretation of the bible is best - so there will always be disagreements
Yes. There will be differences in understanding, and we should be reasonably, and reason... from the scriptures.
We want to avoid reasoning from our own ideas, because then it becomes an unscripturally based opinion.
I concede that you are right here...
And I've come to see that reason dictates that those who are not saved will be deleted - as opposed to tortured or somehow punished, I don't believe these theories add up on closer inspection
So I'm now in agreement with you over what happens to those who are not saved
However, I believe that people with sin can have those sins removed by Christ's sacrifice and so get into heaven if they repent and accept him as Lord and Saviour - I imagine only the truly evil people would be deleted
But I don't class irreligious people as being "truly evil" as on the whole they demonstratively aren't if you examine their conduct (although of course there are irreligious people who are truly evil!)
Do you believe, or hold this view because of what I said?
Of course, I am glad to know that my reasoning somehow helped you to look at things in a different light, but I don't want you to agree with me, based on that, but rather, I am happy if you are now in agreement with
what the Bible says, because you were reasoning from your own viewpoint.
This is what I was encouraging you to consider - that our emotions get in the way of accepting what is scriptural, and this is how Satan uses us to promote his untruths.
If instead, we accept what the Bible says, and then try to understand it, in light of what we learn from scripture, we will avoid being led astray by our own ideas, or someone else's.
I have seen this actually happen to people. They listen to someone's reasoning or idea, and say, "You know what, that makes sense." Someone else comes along with a "better" argument, and the person drops the other argument like a "hot potato", and runs with the "better" argument... until they meet an "even better" argument. Then they are confused. They don't know what to believe. Some stop believing. Why?
All because they relied on human wisdom, rather than
I think the first thing one needs to do is prove to themselves whether the Bible is truly God's word, or not.
Then they can be sure, tat they can rely on what it says, rather than what is discouraged here...
(Proverbs 3:5)
Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And .
do not rely on your own understanding.