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Your family in Hell whilst you're in Heaven?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@Eddi -

I’m afraid I have nothing to contribute. Your supposition comes from a particular Christian perspective which has no meaning to me as a Jew.

Can you tell me RabbiO, where does the Jewish belief in an afterlife come from in scripture? I have studied the Hebrew Scriptures but cannot find any reference to an afterlife except by resurrection. Does this belief originate from outside of scripture?

Can you provide references please...
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Imagine I’m going to go to Heaven (which I hope I am) on account of my relationship with God...

This would mean that my family members would go to Hell on account of them being irreligious
The mistake, here, is assuming that a relationship with God requires religiosity. And specifically, your version of religiosity.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Scriptures tell another story.
Mark 9:48
Matthew 25:46
Revelation 20:10
Thank you for your reply.
Sound to me that by posting Mark 9:47-48 that you are saying that ' worms ' have eternal life ______ (Isaiah 66:24)
At Matthew 25:46 I read No mention of fire but: everlasting punishment.
At 2 Thessalonians 1:9 I find 'everlasting punishment ' is punished with eternal ruin. (ruin / destruction )
At Revelation 20:10 I do Not find the word torture, but the word torment for the symbolic ' false prophet'.
Please continue reading to Revelation 20:13-14 because biblical hell gives up its dead. (resurrected dead)
Then, biblical hell is cast empty into that (Douay) 'pool of fire' aka ' second death ' for vacated hell.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I'm concerned because I believe people have immortal souls that survive death
Many people believe as you do, and are indeed concerned, which is understandable, if one believe in the immortality of the soul.
However, many have been set free from that concern, after learning what the Bible really teaches on that subject.
Such scriptures as...
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.
(Ezekiel 18:4) Look! All the souls - to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son - to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
(Revelation 20:13, 14) 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave* gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.
*Some translations use the word Hell.
...evidently teach contrary to the idea of an immortal soul.
The idea apparently did not originate with the Bible.
Many appreciate the words of Jesus, found at John 8:31, 32... “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

I think if God did, in truth, torture souls forever, it would be something I would be concerned about too.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I'm concerned because I believe people have immortal souls that survive death
You are Not alone in being concerned abut immortal souls that survive death.
Consider that Adam was a living soul and at death Adam became a dead soul.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.
A person can Not 'return ' to a place he never was before.
No post-mortem penalty for sinner Adam and No double jeopardy for dead Adam.
Adam ( all of Adam ) simply 'returned' to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19.
The only hope for the dead is the Bible's Resurrection Hope - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
Acts 24:15 places Resurrection Day (aka Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) as future.
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Can you tell me RabbiO, where does the Jewish belief in an afterlife come from in scripture? I have studied the Hebrew Scriptures but cannot find any reference to an afterlife except by resurrection. Does this belief originate from outside of scripture?

Can you provide references please...
With Shabbat fast approaching, I would simply note, at the moment, that I said nothing about an afterlife in my response to Eddi. Are you asking me a question in general or based upon my response?

I will look at your response after Shabbat is over.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I think if God did, in truth, torture souls forever, it would be something I would be concerned about too.
But wouldn't giving one member of a family eternal life and snuffing out the other family members (on account of their disbelief) be hard on the saved family member, as it would mean eternal life separated from their loved ones? Living forever, but never seeing them again and knowing they are no more?

That sounds pretty harsh to me...
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Mark 9:48 If you burn some garbage and do not throw water on it, the fire is not quenched. But when the garbage is all burned up, the fire goes out because there is nothing left to burn. The garbage is not being punished, it is being destroyed. Same with the wicked.

According to my faith, the complete and total absence of God becomes torture and every kind of ill feeling imaginable. Because God IS love, and IS everything good. And in His absence, the only things left for the everlasting soul to feel is pain and suffering forever and ever, as the soul cannot cease to live.

All anyone should ever want is to be as *close* to God as possible.

This is Catholicism.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
None of these verses uses the word tortured. If you are burned up, then last punishment last forever. Satan is a spirit ans will not die but humans are not the same. Humans can be destroyed.
I do wonder where you get the idea that Satan is death proof or immortal _______
I find at Hebrews 2:14 B that Jesus will destroy sinner Satan.
Sinner Satan is a sinner and ' death ' is the wages that 'sin' pays - Romans 6:23, so sinner Satan is Not exempt.
Sinner Satan thus ends up in ' second death ' as per Revelation 21:8.
' second death ' stands for ' destruction'. ALL the wicked (No exceptions) will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Many people believe as you do, and are indeed concerned, which is understandable, if one believe in the immortality of the soul.
However, many have been set free from that concern, after learning what the Bible really teaches on that subject.
Now tell the kid that you're a Jehovah's Witness and don't believe in the Trinity, so that he can know where you're coming from.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Sure, as soon as you provide evidence, get back to me.
Any imbecile can make a claim. Having evidence is a different matter, entirely

Though, being an "imbacile" is not a requirement for making claims or imagining things.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." ~ Albert Einstein
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
According to my faith, the complete and total absence of God becomes torture and every kind of ill feeling imaginable. Because God IS love, and IS everything good. And in His absence, the only things left for the everlasting soul to feel is pain and suffering forever and ever, as the soul cannot cease to live.
All anyone should ever want is to be as *close* to God as possible.

I read No where that Adam was an everlasting soul .
Adam was only offered everlasting life as long as he did Not break God's law.
Adam did Not come to life until ' after ' God breathed the 'breath of life ' (Not soul) into life-less Adam.
Righteous man Job at Job 33:4 believed that ' breath ' kept Job alive.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Now tell the kid that you're a Jehovah's Witness, don't believe in the Trinity, so that he can know where you're coming from.
I'm familiar with the Jehovah's Witness religion and have interacted with @nPeace before and am aware he is one

And I know that for instance that they believe Jesus to be the Arch Angel Michael
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
(I’m writing this post from a Christian perspective…)

So… I believe in God and accept Christ as my Lord and Saviour and have been baptised as an adult as a public commitment to Christianity, and as a fresh start. And I live my life accordingly and value my relationship with God.

However, none of my family are religious.

This is the thing that gets me…

As I understand it, people are “saved” on account of their relationship with God

Those who are “saved” go to what we call “Heaven” after they die

Whereas those who aren’t will go to what is known as “Hell” (which is the default destination)

Both for eternity (whatever that means)

Now, here’s the thing…

Imagine I’m going to go to Heaven (which I hope I am) on account of my relationship with God (although I would never presume anything, for all I know I could be very much hell bound!)

This would mean that my family members would go to Hell on account of them being irreligious

Here’s my conundrum:

How could one enjoy Heaven knowing one’s family is suffering in Hell for all eternity?

If I go to Heaven I will insist on having my family join me there

I’d hope that this would be possible

Has this occurred to anyone else?

Do people think this would be possible?

Well first. No one goes to hell after they die..
Jesus Christ made this very plain in the book of Like 16 in his teachings of the great gulf fix.

That when people die they pass from us into the great gulf fix. Which is not heaven but Paradise awaiting the day of judgment.
No one in Paradise knows what's happening on earth.
But everyone will have a second chance during the thousand years. After Jesus Christ returns...during the thousand years everyone will be taught the truth whether they like it or not..
Then at the end of the thousand years Satan is set lose out of his prison of the bottom less pit. to go out and deceiving the world one more time and those who follow Satan in his rebellion against God.
Are cast into the lake of fire. never to exist again.
Revelation 20:1-15
So you see your family and friends and loved ones will have a second chance during the thousand years will be taught the truth..
when Jesus Christ is here to establish his kingdom here on earth.
Hope this will answer your questions.
 
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epronovost

Well-Known Member
2 Corinthians 6:14-15
14 Stop becoming unevenly yoked with unbelievers. What partnership can righteousness have with lawlessness? What fellowship can light have with darkness?
15 What harmony exists between the Messiah and Beliar, or what do a believer and an unbeliever have in common?


John 3:18
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's unique Son.


Revelation 21:8
8 But people who are cowardly, unfaithful, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars will find themselves in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."


One can at least argue that unbelievers or unfaithful are not being compared with those that we normally consider the best people out there. Especially Revelation is rather clear that God do not like them and that they should burn in what I guess could be referred to as hell.

unbelievers, especially the kind that reject a faith after being introduced to it (AKA those who think your religion is garbage) are usually considered blasphemer. If I remember correctly blasphemy is pretty much the worst sin, the one that cannot be forgiven. As a person who knows of the Gospel and refuse to embrace it in any way shape or form, I would be considered a blasphemer. Now, if it turns out I'm completely wrong and Christians are right, it stands to reason that I'll be either tortured forever or I'll get a very nasty "second death".
 
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