Your children around transgender classmates

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Forcing someone to say something they do not believe is "mean" and "primitive".

I assume you hate the "revealed" concept of the First Amendment too?

Oh my word. OK, you have the fundamental 1st amendment right to refer to that person in whatever pronoun you find appropriate. I will stand by you and your right to do so. However, I find your willingness to do so repugnant.

Again, I am more concerned about the well being of the child who believes they are transgender (and may actually be so) over what minimal (if any) damage that comes from your poor children being "forced" to call them by another pronoun.

I think parents who encourage their children to dress and behave like freaks are the ones who lack empathy.

I don't think parents of transgender children outwardly encourage such behavior, and I would agree that such behavior would be complete abuse. I think what most transgender parents do is permit that child to explore on their own.

It's not hard to raise a child properly and in a way that is likely to mitigate the potential for them to experience harm and maximize their potential to succeed.

I do not believe, for one second, that you are a parent; and if you are, you are a very naive parent. I've never heard a parent talk like that.

The idea of an adult encouraging a child to experiment with their sexual identity or gender identity is sick and repugnant at best and a form of criminal sexualization at worst. It's practically child abuse.

So, when I was young, I played with dolls, sometimes. Is that sick for a boy to do that? I also wore my mother's old night gowns and her red zip-up female boots from the 1970s. Is that also "sick"? I also played with Mom's make up and nail polish. Is that sick?

My parents just laughed it off and regarded it as a part of the learning experience. I grew up to believe myself to be straight male, consistent with my biology; because things like this are a part of the developmental process.

Being punished, mocked, humiliated by parents for doing things like this has a track record of inducing harm. I could find sources for this claim, I'm sure, if you want me to do so.

but showing basic respect for your fellow humans shouldn't be such a difficult challenge for you. We're all people, first and foremost, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion, political beliefs, etc. I don't know what your religious beliefs are, but I seriously doubt they encourage you to be so hateful.

Said very, very well!

Since transgender children are far more likely to get raped than normal children

I would really, really like to see a source for this. And I certainly hope its not from "Family Research Council". But yes. Please, a source?

I am an officer for an organization that aims to prevent childhood sexual abuse. I have never seen this statistic, ever.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I don't find your reasoning to be a good justification to deny all kids presenting with gender dysphoria access to the correct facilities. Yes, there are cases where they are not actually trans but obviously there's actual trans people, as you admit. So why hurt the actual trans people? We know that trans people pose very little risk to cis people. It's almost always cis people harassing and violating trans people in restrooms than the other way around (yes, including cis women harassing and assaulting trans women). That in mind, it makes more sense to let them use the facilities of their stated gender unless there is an objective reason not to. People should be treated as individuals. We are talking about kids and not adults, so I'm not sure what harm people are expecting from this. It's actually extremely perverse because it seems that adults are projecting perverted sexual intentions onto kids, which wouldn't even have a concept of such things. Adults are the messed up ones in this world, not children.

Powerful rebuttals. Thank you.
I especially like (and agree) with this one: "It's actually extremely perverse because it seems that adults are projecting perverted sexual intentions onto kids, which wouldn't even have a concept of such things."
I would be open to "gender neutral" restrooms provided for prepubescent children.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So, if a boy decides to be a girl in a prepubescent classroom, do you think there is any negative impact on the developing mind of a child being taught to call he/him her/she and accept it as nothing disordered or unhealthy?

Should "she" use the girl's room?

Please explain why or why not...

Kids are resilient and flexible. T^hey don't have nearly the problem coping with the existence of transgender people as certain adults do.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Powerful rebuttals. Thank you.
I especially like (and agree) with this one: "It's actually extremely perverse because it seems that adults are projecting perverted sexual intentions onto kids, which wouldn't even have a concept of such things."
I would be open to "gender neutral" restrooms provided for prepubescent children.

Sure, glad I could make you think on it a bit and modify your position. Gender neutral restrooms are a start but just treating them like any other student would be best. Integrating trans people at a young age is best in order to stave off future problems with depression and alienation.

The first trans person I met was a trans girl in high school. This was over a decade before the current media moment trans people have. There was no Jazz Jennings then. The school treated her pretty badly; they forced her to be outed to the students against her will, as well as forcing her to use the staff restroom and policed what she wore, even though she was no different from any other teenage girl. This was highly traumatic for her. I actually chatted with her about this a few weeks ago. It was the first time talking to her since high school.

Come to think of it, that school would likely be sued today for blatant discrimination and maybe civil rights violations, and with good reason. It's a secular charter school, so it receives state funding. But this was before Obama and there wasn't much of anything a trans person could do then.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I would really, really like to see a source for this. And I certainly hope its not from "Family Research Council". But yes. Please, a source?

Never did get a source .....

I am an officer for an organization that aims to prevent childhood sexual abuse. I have never seen this statistic, ever.

I can see problems arising from permitting children to use whatever restroom they want to. My concern is not so much the behavior of the children nor the children's intent. My concern is for the well being of the children themselves; both the trans and the cis; and this at the hands of ignorant grownups.

Understand, please, that my reservations does not have anything to do imparting adult motivations on childhood behavior. It has nothing to do with protecting the children from each other. Nor does it have anything to do with the myth that a pedo might follow the trans into the restroom. (Cases like this are so extremely rare, its almost like being afraid of being pelted by a comet). It has to do with protecting children from emotionally charged, irrational, ignorant adults.

Children engage in sex play. This is a part of the developmental process, what we often call "playing doctor". They look, sometimes explore and touch. This is not sexual abuse. It is childhood development. The motivations of prepubescent children behaving in such a manner is not "sex" as grownups understand it; but in the day and age of sex offender hysteria and tabooing of sex altogether, such an incident being discovered between two children could easily escalate out of control by the reactionary grownups in the environment, and cause all kinds of problems. There are cases out there (I can find examples of requested) of this kind of sex play resulting in prepubescent children facing legal consequences and being labelled as sexual offenders for engaging in this behavior with an age peer.

This is further complicated by the fact that children who have been sexually assaulted sometimes re-enact that abuse with others with others, including age peers. So, children who have already been traumatized and abused may face an increased risk of being traumatized again? Again, their motivations are not sex or sexual abuse, as grownups perceive sex and sexual abuse.

But we live in an emotionally charged reality where the discovery of such instances generally will not be the rational reaction of giggling, shaking our heads, pulling the children aside, and saying, "Listen. You did nothing wrong. Its part of growing up. So now its time to tell you that we don't behave like that, and here is why. Now, go back to class and be good." No, we're talking about an emotionally charged, irrational ****storm. That, by itself, often serves to shame and blame, and sometimes traumatize innocent children who were only being children.

Having children use the restroom that is consistent with their physiology does not entirely remove this risk; but doesn't it help mitigate it?

So, with permitting the use of either bathroom (or even gender neutral restrooms), how would you suggest we mitigate this?