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Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

tas8831

Well-Known Member
You accused me of parroting conspiracy material and you post this kind of stuff.
Are you saying that your orange messiah did NOT imply that we should be 'looking into' injecting bleach and isopropanol and sticking UV light in us somehow to treat Covid? "...almost a cleaning"?
As far as answering any of your questions you can do your own google search, I’ve looked at both sides of the vaccine discussion and made my decision on how to proceed seen as I’m the one responsible for the decisions I make.
And what is your background such that you were able to weigh the pros and cons and come to sound conclusions?

Similar to your background on evolution, I suspect.
Googling is great, but if you cannot understand most of what you read, how will you know? Did you look at original source material, or just the cherry-picked and distilled for consumption parts like you hear on OANN or Youtube?
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Do you have a problem with VAERS and the data they collect about vaccines?
Yes - every sensible person should, seeing as how there are virtually NO 'gatekeepers' for that clearinghouse of paranoia.
Broken arms because of vaccine?
Car accident because of vaccine?
Turning into the Hulk because of vaccines?

"To illustrate the point that caution must be exercised when interpreting VAERS data, anesthesiologist James Laidler, MD, submitted a claim to the system in 2004 claiming a vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk. The CDC eventually followed up with Dr. Laidler and asked for his permission to remove the report, but he told VICE it would still be there today if he had not given them his approval."​

Only a gullible fool takes VAERS reporting at face value. As Laidler demonstrated, anyone can put literally anything on VAERS and have it stand as a 'side effect' of vaccination.

"However, they [antivaxxers] don’t understand how VAERS works. It doesn’t collect data systematically, nor does it constitute proof of harm from vaccines. It accepts any and all anecdotal reports from patients, doctors, lawyers, or anyone who thinks an adverse event has happened after a vaccination. The anecdotes are neither investigated nor verified. There is evidence that whenever a particular adverse event such as autism is being litigated, the number of reports of that adverse event in VAERS increases. Perhaps the litigants are putting more reports into the system so they can present the data as evidence in the courtroom."
People like you are what con-men call 'marks.'
 
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tas8831

Well-Known Member
Your faulty science has you deceived, all someone has to do is say they are progressive and a liberal here is the science and you will believe whatever is said.
Ok, whatever - you never did respond to this:

So.... if you have a disease and do not die, and become immune, what do you think happens when exposed to the same or a very similar pathogen again the future?
I would really like to see your answer.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
So we shut down the whole Country instead of taking precautions for those over 60 and most were probably retired.
We did that and the rates went down. In June the 7-day moving average was 12,700 new cases.
Then Republicans prematurely reopened everything and lifted restrictions. The seven-day moving average as of yesterday was 186,840. That's a ten-fold increase in just over two months.

I didn’t forget about that, the young and healthy weren’t affected much different than a normal flu season. Common sense precautions are all we needed, not shutting down the Country.

Common sense should tell you that when there is a highly contagious pandemic happening the things to do are: Listen to epidemiologists and public health officials; get vaccinated; wear masks; maintain social distancing; avoid indoor spaces, especially those with poor air circulation.

Common sense should tell you to reject dangerous quack snake-oil like hydroxychloroquine.
Common sense should tell you to reject advice from biased TV personalities like Tucker Carlson.
Common sense should tell you to reject advice from politicians like Governors Abbott and DeSantis who are trying to build a base for a 2024 run.
Common sense should tell you to reject advice from people like convicted con-man Mike the Pillow Guy.

Well if the current vaccine is that limited, you aren’t immune after taking the vaccine then why are they calling it a vaccine?
You cannot still be under the impression that vaccines are 100% effective. So one has to wonder why you would make such a ridiculous comment.

Everyone is saying how effective and great it is, well my natural immunity is proving to be much better.
The natural immunity of 600,000 dead didn't prove to be better than the vaccine.

If the Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine treatments weren’t suppressed and doctors were able to prescribe these in the early stages of Covid we wouldn’t have had the death rates and hospitalizations we had.
Who told you that? Was it the people who are against vaccines and like to push snake oil? Snake oil salesmen have always made a good living selling ineffective and often dangerous products. They can spot the suckers from a mile away.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
If the Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine treatments weren’t suppressed and doctors were able to prescribe these in the early stages of Covid we wouldn’t have had the death rates and hospitalizations we had.
1. Treatments do not prevent infection and transmission. Typical of right-wingers to ignore prevention.
2. Ivermectin doesn't seem to do anything at all.
Michael Hiltzik: Major study of Ivermectin, the anti-vaccine crowd’s latest COVID drug, finds ‘no effect whatsoever’
Interesting that anti-vax, 'natural' med types are advocating the use of an anti-parasite drug used in animals. Just like Jesus would have, I suppose.
3. Hydoxy - just because your orange messiah touted it (to earn money) it doesn't mean it is a miracle sure for viral infections.
A Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Postexposure Prophylaxis for Covid-19 - PubMed
"The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was -2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, -7.0 to 2.2; P = 0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported."

Hydroxychloroquine as Pre-exposure Prophylaxis for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in Healthcare Workers: A Randomized Trial
"Pre-exposure prophylaxis with hydroxychloroquine once or twice weekly did not significantly reduce laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 or COVID-19–compatible illness among healthcare workers."

Efficacy of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 patients: a systematic review and meta-analysis
"Moderate certainty evidence suggests that HCQ, with or without azithromycin, lacks efficacy in reducing short-term mortality in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 or risk of hospitalization in outpatients with COVID-19."
 
You cannot still be under the impression that vaccines are 100% effective. So one has to wonder why you would make such a ridiculous comment.
Wasn’t under that impression, what’s being labeled as a Covid vaccine isn’t turning out to be ask effective as was being promoted because people aren’t immune. I am not saying don’t get the shots or multiple booster shots or wear a mask or be scared for your life. You are free to choose those options.
The natural immunity of 600,000 dead didn't prove to be better than the vaccine.
This is NOT natural immunity…Natural immunity is people that recovered from Covid and their immune system recognizes and fights the virus now. Before the vaccines nothing was done for patients, sent them home and a lot ended up getting worse and ended up in the hospital on ventilators because the virus got in the lungs and died as a result. A doctor in our area used Hydroxychloriquine treatment and had great success with that in 2020.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
A doctor in our area used Hydroxychloriquine treatment and had great success with that in 2020.
Then that was likely just coincidental as repeated studies have not shown it to be effective, thus the CDC has warned about using it for covid, also because of its side effects.
 
Then that was likely just coincidental as repeated studies have not shown it to be effective, thus the CDC has warned about using it for covid, also because of its side effects.
Call it what you will but patients recovered in a couple days without going to the hospital.
 
So did he do double blind? Control groups? What? Can you reference a site with his study protocol?
I already sited some doctors, videos and comments on this and my reasoning for not taking the vaccine at this time and waiting before I do. This has been taken as I’m anti-vaccination, which
I’m not. What I am saying is wrong is the division, blaming, suppressing dissenting voices in the medical field, the mandates, fear tactics, media bias on this particular subject. What I am for is for adults to be given all the information and then the freedom to make their choice for themselves and their families.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I already sited some doctors, videos and comments on this and my reasoning for not taking the vaccine at this time and waiting before I do. This has been taken as I’m anti-vaccination, which
I’m not. What I am saying is wrong is the division, blaming, suppressing dissenting voices in the medical field, the mandates, fear tactics, media bias on this particular subject. What I am for is for adults to be given all the information and then the freedom to make their choice for themselves and their families.

All information is not of the same quality and it can even change over time. So what some of us object to is the idea that all information is of the same quality just because it is information.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Call it what you will but patients recovered in a couple days without going to the hospital.

June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met. Please refer to the Revocation of the EUA Letter and FAQs on the Revocation of the EUA for Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate and Chloroquine Phosphate for more information. -- FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Are you saying that your orange messiah did NOT imply that we should be 'looking into' injecting bleach and isopropanol and sticking UV light in us somehow to treat Covid? "...almost a cleaning"?

And what is your background such that you were able to weigh the pros and cons and come to sound conclusions?

Similar to your background on evolution, I suspect.
Googling is great, but if you cannot understand most of what you read, how will you know? Did you look at original source material, or just the cherry-picked and distilled for consumption parts like you hear on OANN or Youtube?

To be fair, he didn't say bleach. He said disinfectant. LOL
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Wasn’t under that impression, what’s being labeled as a Covid vaccine isn’t turning out to be ask effective as was being promoted because people aren’t immune.
So you don't understand what 94% effectiveness means. I'm not surprised.

Before the vaccines nothing was done for patients, sent them home and a lot ended up getting worse and ended up in the hospital on ventilators because the virus got in the lungs and died as a result.

Your knowledge of how Covid worksis truly abysmal.
  1. The virus gets into your lungs.
  2. The virus replicates in your lungs.
  3. You feel ill - to varying degrees.
  4. If seriously ill, you go to a hospital.
  5. If really seriously ill, they put you on a ventilator to try to help you breathe.
Notice that the virus getting into the lungs is the first step in the process. Not wherever you seem to think it is.

A doctor in our area used Hydroxychloriquine treatment and had great success with that in 2020.
Which doctor? Did he document the results of all the times he gave Hydroxychloriquine versus all the times he did not. Did he record the severity of the condition of the patients when he first saw them?

You have stated that the vaccines are not fully approved by the FDA yet you are touting a product that the FDA has clearly stated should not be used for Covid treatment. That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless you just abhor science when applied to biology (evolution, vaccines, etc).


One hundred years ago people like your doctor sold this wonder cure...
image-20161102-27237-jrcwgu.jpg

This energy drink was simply radium dissolved in water. It was sold in the 1920s in one-ounce bottles costing about US$1 each ($15 in 2016 dollars). Its manufacturer claimed the drink not only provided energy but also cured a host of ailments, including impotence.

CZCXoIQWEAI1lBA.jpg

Note that it says "Without drugs or chemicals". You would have loved it.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The other thing is that I’ve yet to go to the doctor have them guilt trip or force me to take their recommendations or have them tell me if I don’t get vaccinated the pandemic will be all my fault, that’s not how they operate. What doctors do is give you all the options with their recommendation and let you choose.
:cool:
True, Wise doctors do this
"Fools" call others fools
Or impose guilt
 
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Your knowledge of how Covid worksis truly abysmal.
  1. The virus gets into your lungs.
  2. The virus replicates in your lungs.
  3. You feel ill - to varying degrees.
  4. If seriously ill, you go to a hospital.
  5. If really seriously ill, they put you on a ventilator to try to help you breathe.
Notice that the virus getting into the lungs is the first step in the process. Not wherever you seem to think it is.
Notice how the Covid test is done and where the sample is taken:

COVID-19 diagnostic testing is done to find out if you're currently infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved these types of tests for diagnosing a COVID-19 infection:


  • PCR test. Also called a molecular test, this COVID-19 test detects genetic material of the virus using a lab technique called polymerase chain reaction (PCR). A fluid sample is collected by inserting a long nasal swab (nasopharyngeal swab) into your nostril and taking fluid from the back of your nose or by using a shorter nasal swab (mid-turbinate swab) to get a sample.

    In some cases, a long swab is inserted into the back of your throat (oropharyngeal swab), or you may spit into a tube to produce a saliva sample. Results may be available in minutes if analyzed onsite or a few days — or longer in locations with test processing delays — if sent to an outside lab. PCR tests are very accurate when properly performed by a health care professional, but the rapid test can miss some cases.

    (The virus doesn’t start in a persons lungs)
 
June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met. Please refer to the Revocation of the EUA Letter and FAQs on the Revocation of the EUA for Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate and Chloroquine Phosphate for more information. -- FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19
I’m asking if you know that when this study was done that they used the same combination of ingredients?

I. Antiviral Agents:
These must be started quickly at STAGE I (Days 1-5):
Symptoms include sore throat, nasal stuffiness, fatigue, headaches, body aches, loss of taste and/or smell, loss of appetite, nausea, diarrhea, fever.
These medicines stop the virus from (1) entering the cells and (2) from multiplying once inside the cells, and they reduce bacterial invasion in the sinuses and lung:
 *Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) with azithromycin (AZM) or doxycycline OR
 Ivermectin with azithromycin (AZM) or doxycycline
Either combination above must also include zinc sulfate or gluconate, plus supplemental vitamin D,
and vitamin C. Some doctors also recommend adding a B complex vitamin.
Zinc is critical. It helps block the virus from multiplying. Hydroxychloroquine is the carrier taking zinc INTO the cells to do its job.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Notice how the Covid test is done and where the sample is taken:

COVID-19 diagnostic testing is done to find out if you're currently infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved these types of tests for diagnosing a COVID-19 infection:


  • PCR test. Also called a molecular test, this COVID-19 test detects genetic material of the virus using a lab technique called polymerase chain reaction (PCR). A fluid sample is collected by inserting a long nasal swab (nasopharyngeal swab) into your nostril and taking fluid from the back of your nose or by using a shorter nasal swab (mid-turbinate swab) to get a sample.

    In some cases, a long swab is inserted into the back of your throat (oropharyngeal swab), or you may spit into a tube to produce a saliva sample. Results may be available in minutes if analyzed onsite or a few days — or longer in locations with test processing delays — if sent to an outside lab. PCR tests are very accurate when properly performed by a health care professional, but the rapid test can miss some cases.

    (The virus doesn’t start in a persons lungs)
I'm almost speechless knowing that you are being serious.

They do nasal swabs because they cannot do lung swabs in living people outside of a hospital setting.

The virus enters through the mouth and/or the nose.
The virus moves to the lungs.
The virus replicates in the lungs.
When a person exhales some virus particles get trapped temporarily in the nose and mouth.
Death is caused by problems in the lungs.
 
The virus enters through the mouth and/or the nose.
So yes starts there and is what I’m saying that some doctors who’ve had success are saying, if you can detect Covid and start treatment at this time a hospital visit and need for a ventilator is greatly reduced and that’s it. If you wait till the virus takes hold in the lungs you’re in a lot of trouble at that point.
 
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