1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

You! Stop reading this and click on this thread!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tumah, Sep 22, 2016.

?
  1. Replacement Theology

    95.2%
  2. Harmonizing Theology

    4.8%
  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,702
    Ratings:
    +8,355
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    Thanks for dropping by.

    This thread was made as a continuation to a debate taking place in another thread with another poster who may or may not want to remain anonymous and so I'll refrain from calling him out.

    The question of this thread is as follows:

    In as much as Christianity replaces the Judaism and Islam replaces the Christianity (and by extension Judaism), my stance is that Bahha'i replaces all previous religions as the new standard for people to follow.

    The reason being, although the Baha'i peoples are wont to make the claim that they accept all religions as coming from the same god and propose religious unity across the spectrum of all [what they believe to be] divinely inspired religions, I believe they do so, by replacing previous religions' laws and theological stances.

    The other stance as I've understood it, states that all religions retain their original Laws and philosophies for their own people and Baha'i is merely another friendly player at the pluralist table. Its Laws apply only to its own people and there is no requirement whatsoever on anyone else to become Baha'i. Nor, aside for pioneering, do they engage in any missionary activity.

    Because of familiarity, I'll use my own religion as an example of this. Although I believe it is true for Christianity and Islam as well.

    In Judaism, it is well known that a Judaism people may not become a member of another faith. One who does so is considered an heretic and there are various laws that apply when dealing with such a person.

    Ejemplo Numero Uno
    In Baha'i it is perfectly acceptable for a Judaism people to convert to Baha'i.

    To me this means, that although Baha'i accept Judaism, they have replaced the Law restricting Jews from converting to another religion, with their own law that allows it.

    Esempio Numero Due:
    Judaism comes with a predefined set of Laws for non-Judaism people called the Seven Noahide Laws. Its a code of Laws that we believe applies to all non-Judaism people. Baha'i, is a religion that applies to all non-Judaism people. Baha'i is not a fulfillment of the Seven Noahide Laws, it contradicts it.

    Hence by allowing the Baha'i people to transgress the Noahide Laws in favor of Baha'i, it has replaced the Noahide Laws for non-Judaism people with its own.

    Exemple Numéro Trois
    Judaism has a fairly well defined eschatology. It involves a messianic figure doing stuff for the Judaism peoples and the nation peoples. It involves G-d directly doing stuff for the Judaism peoples and the nation peoples.
    None of those things are a religious creating religious unity by bringing together different religions in order to create peace on earth and passing the buck to another religious leader a thousand or so odd years later.

    This is again, a replacement of previous eschatological views.

    I can think of a few other examples, but because I know you, dear poster are quite busy checking out other threads, I'll stop here and invite you to comment and vote!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,091
    Ratings:
    +14,884
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    I agree it is a replacement theology, however due to the constraints that have surrounded it since its inception there was no possibility of them being hostile to Islam (here I mean the suicidal impulse for Baha'ullah to dare to even think of claiming to supersede Islam). The "on the ground" reality facing its founders necessitated that they endlessly placate Islam and the harmonizing aspect, though amusing to their hosts, would have meant little given that Islam is a supremacist replacement theology itself. Meanwhile, since there has been no serious backlash from the Christian or Jewish communities, the Bahia's are largely free to say whatever they like - it's not like all too many folks are really listening.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Mauricius Modestus

    Mauricius Modestus God-worshipper
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,687
    Ratings:
    +963
    Religion:
    Christian monolatrist, Hebrew Roots sympathies
    Exactly, Ymir. Because of the fact that Bahá’ís are followers of a separate religion. We are not Muslims, dude.
     
  4. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    32,257
    Ratings:
    +17,309
    Religion:
    Germanic Heathenry / Satanism
    I don't know enough about what Baha'i teaches on the matter to really have an opinion. As for me, as a Catholic, I hold to what is called supersessionism as dual Covenant theology is viewed as heretical.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    54,284
    Ratings:
    +24,112
    Religion:
    Love
    That is, of course, the view of some. It's not my view. To me, all religions are rivers going to the one and same ocean. At this point, feel free to queue the classic "Blind Men and the Elephant" tale.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    15,613
    Ratings:
    +4,137
    Religion:
    my own religion
    The Bahá’í Faith is one of the best I can think of.
     
  7. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    46,687
    Ratings:
    +15,104
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    Considering that the Bahai Faith has apparently decided that Buddhism was meant to be by the God of Abraham, our own teachings be darned, I have no choice but to vote "Replacement".
     
    • Like Like x 6
  8. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    14,905
    Ratings:
    +5,390
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    I was formerly a Baha'i many years back. (I still like Baha'i people so I am not anti-Baha'i either).

    I voted 'Replacement Theology'. (I wonder how the Baha'i people here will vote.)

    Being a Baha'i in colloquial terms is an all or nothing proposition. It is a very well-defined independent world religion and your previous religion is replaced upon joining. The dispensation time for the previous dispensations has ended and we are now in the era of the Baha'i dispensation to last for 1,000 years (at least) until the next manifestation of God shall begin a new era. Yes, Judaism, Islam, Christianity. etc. dispensations have ended their productive cycle and the world is called to the Baha'i dispensation. Actually I believe what we hear from a lot of Baha'i people today (and what many of them have been led to believe) is a softened and more palatable view for a liberal western audience.

    I know for a fact the earlier teachings (and not understood by many newer Baha'i's today) is the belief that the Baha'i Faith is not a side player on the world's religious stage but is destined to be the dominant religion for all mankind. Its religions and institutions are believed to be destined one day to replace the current religions and world order of the previous dispensations. (From Wikipedia: The Aqdas is referred to as "the Mother-Book" of the Bahá'í teachings, and the "Charter of the future world civilization".)

    Alike in the claims unequivocally asserted by its Author and the general character of the growth of the Baha'i community in every continent of the globe, it can be regarded in no other light than a world religion, destined to evolve in the course of time into a world-embracing commonwealth, whose advent must signalize the Golden Age of mankind, the age in which the unity of the human race will have been unassailably established, its maturity attained, and its glorious destiny unfolded through the birth and efflorescence of a world-encompassing civilization.

    The source for this is the Baha'i International Community
    website

    Also from the Baha'i website on its Administrative Order (written by the Guardian of the Faith - Shoghi Effendi)

    It will, as its component parts, its organic institutions, begin to function with efficiency and vigor, assert its claim and demonstrate its capacity to be regarded not only as the nucleus but the very pattern of the New World Order destined to embrace in the fullness of time the whole of mankind.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,702
    Ratings:
    +8,355
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    That's fine, but the question wasn't about your personal view of religion, but whether or not Baha'i theology for all practical purposes replaces previous [Abrahamic] religion's theology.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,702
    Ratings:
    +8,355
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    Thanks for relating the the question of the thread.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Rick O'Shez

    Rick O'Shez Irishman bouncing off walls

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2013
    Messages:
    13,049
    Ratings:
    +4,903
    Religion:
    Guinness
    Yes, it's nonsense really. Buddha has been forced into all kinds of DIY religions, but dragging the poor chap into a monotheist set-up is really going too far. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
    #11 Rick O'Shez, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
  12. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +88
    Religion:
    ancient as the word itself until they called it the true christians
    ~;> there is one religion that we considered most if we may say so
    as it is written
    :read:
    James 1:27
    Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

    :ty:



    godbless
    unto all always
     
  13. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3,235
    Ratings:
    +2,919
    Religion:
    "Post" Christian, likely Deist
    The new guys always want to replace the old guys. It is the way of things.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,615
    Ratings:
    +3,358
    Religion:
    Islam
    Cocktail of religions !

    How does make sense !!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    18,408
    Ratings:
    +24,268
    Religion:
    בת נח
    Truth just happened.
     
    #15 Rival, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,702
    Ratings:
    +8,355
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    [​IMG]

    They look pretty, but they leave you with a splitting headache the next morning.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +406
  18. Rick O'Shez

    Rick O'Shez Irishman bouncing off walls

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2013
    Messages:
    13,049
    Ratings:
    +4,903
    Religion:
    Guinness
    Cocktails are confusing, and purity is far superior. :p

    [​IMG]
     
  19. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +88
    Religion:
    ancient as the word itself until they called it the true christians
    ~;> as far as religion involved
    this is one and one of many things that is irreplaceable

    [​IMG]
    this is my wife (just kidding)


    :ty:




    godbless
    unto all always
     
    #19 ukok102nak, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    58,965
    Ratings:
    +16,832
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    To quote the Christian Bible: "test everything. Hold on to that which is good."
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...