You know all that indignant outrage about black people rioting?

[Jos]

A black man was accused of a crime against a white woman. He was held in protective custody, and a mob came for him. Race riots broke out, and largely white mobs destroyed a relatively affluent black community.

You seem defensive about my post, but I'm unsure why. Still, worth reading, particularly if you're American.

1921 Tulsa Race Massacre - Tulsa Historical Society & Museum

Thanks for sharing. Tbh, I'm not defensive about your post, I was just interested in finding out what you talking about. I guess my interest came across as defensiveness.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Thanks for sharing. Tbh, I'm not defensive about your post, I was just interested in finding out what you talking about. I guess my interest came across as defensiveness.

It's all good, and I might have misread your reaction.
I'm Australian, and assumed the Tulsa reference might have made sense to Americans here. I was trying to let the facts stand for themselves in support of @Stevicus ' post, since I agreed with it, but on reflection a wee bit of context might have helped...lol

Anyway. All good, mate.

 

[Stevicus]

It's all good, and I might have misread your reaction.
I'm Australian, and assumed the Tulsa reference might have made sense to Americans here. I was trying to let the facts stand for themselves in support of @Stevicus ' post, since I agreed with it, but on reflection a wee bit of context might have helped...lol

Anyway. All good, mate.

Yes, Tulsa is a good example. There have actually been numerous riots involving whites, some race-related, although there were also labor riots as well. And then if we extend it to other countries, there were lots of whites who rioted in Europe over the centuries, some of which changed governments and made history.

In more recent times, we've seen some notable sports-related riots. Hometown team wins, and people go nuts and start flipping over cars, starting fires, and causing general mayhem and chaos, and even some deaths.

 

[Jos]

It's all good, and I might have misread your reaction.
I'm Australian, and assumed the Tulsa reference might have made sense to Americans here. I was trying to let the facts stand for themselves in support of @Stevicus ' post, since I agreed with it, but on reflection a wee bit of context might have helped...lol

Anyway. All good, mate.

It's OK, I'm not American either, thanks either way.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's all good, and I might have misread your reaction.
I'm Australian, and assumed the Tulsa reference might have made sense to Americans here. I was trying to let the facts stand for themselves in support of @Stevicus ' post, since I agreed with it, but on reflection a wee bit of context might have helped...lol

Anyway. All good, mate.

Nah, most Americans probably don't know about that one. History classes end to gloss over the shameful parts of our history.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Would I trust someone stealing or damaging property that isn't theirs? No.
Do I consider their actions excusable or justifiable? No.
Do I think shooting them is a proportionate reaction? No.
I'm all for the use of force to defend people against violence, but randomly firing into a crowd just because a handful of them smashed windows? Not the same thing, at all.
Also, as the video suggests, it seems some of these people are committing these acts to hurt the protestors' image.
Let's say some drunken redneck tossed a beer bottle through a window at an anti-mask/anti-quarantine protest. Would you be okay if the police and military just randomly fired into the group of protestors? Or is it different if the protestors are white and conservative?

don't let them shift focus.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'm not sure if there can be any spin to this,

obviously not, yet I confidentally predict there will be some sort of spin/tu quoque/focus shift imminently

although if someone ordered some agents provocateur to create mayhem, then that may explain why they arrested that news crew.

It does seem pretty brazen, since he didn't even make the slightest attempt to blend in or make it look like he was part of the riot. The way he responded to the guy who confronted him sounded very cop-like, giving a command rather than what a typical average Joe looking for a fight would say. He assumed an air of authority, and was clearly not allied or in any kind of solidarity with the protesters.

At least J. Edgar Hoover had a bit more finesse, but if these were agents provocateur, they ended up looking rather clumsy and amateurish. So, if someone wanted to put any spin on it, they could point out that these guys were idiots, which seems pretty obvious anyway.

I'm not even sure that this is a centrally coordinated operation. I'd be very hesitant to claim there's someone sending out these agent provocateurs on orders. Even though this guy is supposedly a cop, I suspect it's more like a lone firefighter setting fires he and his crew can respond to than it is a deliberate attempt by anyone official to deliberately precipitate a riot.

I could be wrong, maybe I'm not yet cynical enough.

 

[74x12]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=254536622291839

This is a bigger ****show than it first seemed

Agent provocateurs are real. Probably a cop or something.

 

[Stevicus]

obviously not, yet I confidentally predict there will be some sort of spin/tu quoque/focus shift imminentlyI'm not even sure that this is a centrally coordinated operation. I'd be very hesitant to claim there's someone sending out these agent provocateurs on orders. Even though this guy is supposedly a cop, I suspect it's more like a lone firefighter setting fires he and his crew can respond to than it is a deliberate attempt by anyone official to deliberately precipitate a riot.

I could be wrong, maybe I'm not yet cynical enough.

THat's true, it could have been anything. Perhaps not something led from the top, but perhaps some cops at the lower ranks might have gotten together and thought this up. I somehow doubt this is some ordinary citizen. I think most people would be afraid to go into a riot like that, but this guy is walking around like he owns the place.

Who knows? Maybe the masked man was a disgruntled employee at the store whose windows he broke. Not knowing who he is or what he represents leaves a lot of doubt, so I guess someone can generate some spin from that.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

THat's true, it could have been anything. Perhaps not something led from the top, but perhaps some cops at the lower ranks might have gotten together and thought this up. I somehow doubt this is some ordinary citizen. I think most people would be afraid to go into a riot like that, but this guy is walking around like he owns the place.

Who knows? Maybe the masked man was a disgruntled employee at the store whose windows he broke. Not knowing who he is or what he represents leaves a lot of doubt, so I guess someone can generate some spin from that.

Does Video Show Police Officer Smashing Windows During Minn. Protests?

Snopes says it's so far unproven who he is, although plenty of internet detectives are claiming to have identified him, and others claim to know him personally, and of course the police department has denied it's him (although, tellingly, they haven't said who it IS, either). Time will tell, I guess.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Agent provocateurs are real. Probably a cop or something.

that is the rumour, with, IMHO, quite a compelling amount of circumstantial evidence. The important question, I think, who ever he is, was he acting on his own initiative, or was he acting as part of a larger coordinated plan?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

ummmm on Twitter

"

Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD is outed as the individual who smashed the windows at AutoZone. Police are posing as protesters burning buildings to portray a false narrative. This happened in 2015 and it's happening again. #BlackLivesMatter

#GeorgeFloyd #MinneapolisUprising"

 

[Father Heathen]

ummmm on Twitter

"

Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD is outed as the individual who smashed the windows at AutoZone. Police are posing as protesters burning buildings to portray a false narrative. This happened in 2015 and it's happening again. #BlackLivesMatter

#GeorgeFloyd #MinneapolisUprising"

I hope this blows up in the mainstream media.

So @BSM1 and @Nowhere Man , does this cop need to be shot for smashing windows?

 

[Father Heathen]

don't let them shift focus.

I know, but I hate it when they try to misrepresent your words, such as suggesting that thinking killing a looter is a disproportionate reaction to the crime is the same as trusting them and shaking their hand, somehow.

 

[Stevicus]

that is the rumour, with, IMHO, quite a compelling amount of circumstantial evidence. The important question, I think, who ever he is, was he acting on his own initiative, or was he acting as part of a larger coordinated plan?

If they identify and charge the individuals in question, if they happen to be cops, it would be interesting to see if they get light sentences or if they get hung out to dry. If they were directed from higher up, then they could spill the beans and implicate their superiors.

Either way, with the initial murder, then the incident with the CNN crew, and now this, it seems that the police departments in question are going to have to face some serious scrutiny.

Other police departments may also feel compelled to examine their own practices and policies, as they're already making statements condemning the Floyd murder and the methods used by the police in Minneapolis. They're dissociating themselves from this as much as they can, as a lot of other cities are facing riots too.

Another thing that mystifies me about this is that, all due to the actions of one despicable cop, so many other cops and civilians have to go through this hellish riot and chaos - which has already become deadly. Why do cops still tend to protect the bad apples, even though they're the ones who make their jobs all the more dangerous?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

ummmm on Twitter

"

Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD is outed as the individual who smashed the windows at AutoZone. Police are posing as protesters burning buildings to portray a false narrative. This happened in 2015 and it's happening again. #BlackLivesMatter

#GeorgeFloyd #MinneapolisUprising"

I'm not taking my news from Twitter.
Snopes still has it listed as unproven, and I find this sort of speculation problematic.