You Cannot Know God.

[Stokley]

A key source for Christian arrogance, that is arrogance in Christians who use the Imperial Pronouns "We/Us/Our" to make their ideas sound as if they represent an authoritative consensus, is for them at some convenient point to claim they "Know God." They like to quote John 17:3,

"And this is eternal life, that they may know thee the only true God."

They imagine that their ability to remember and to emotionally agree with John 17:3 automatically means they do "know God." But, here is their problem. Simply remembering and agreeing with a piece of Scripture, even if it is God's Personal Word, does not mean that particular Word is then implimented in their little life. Scripture cannot be "claimed." No such "claiming" of Scripture is ever taught in Scripture. "Claiming Scripture" is a modern idea started by Little Church Grannies with Kleenex in their hands, and by Professional Church Talkers. Doing so helps Pewsitters use their imaginations and talk as substitutes for material faith.

No person can "Know God" beyond what He has specifically disclosed ABOUT Himself in Scripture. If you disagree, then tell us right now what you know about God beyond what is in The Bible.

 

[Lyndon]

I know what God tells me.

 

[leibowde84]

I know what God tells me.

How can you "know" that it's God, rather than "strongly believe" that it's God. Where does the surety that you cannot be wrong come from? What evidence is it based on?

 

[Lyndon]

How can you "know" that it's God, rather than "strongly believe" that it's God. Where does the surety that you cannot be wrong come from? What evidence is it based on?

A lifetime of interaction, and spot on advice and direction.

 

[leibowde84]

A lifetime of interaction, and spot on advice and direction.

So, you are basing this surety on your own subjective experience? I'm not sure that can be considered reliable evidence, though, as it is not verifiable.

 

[Lyndon]

So, you are basing this surety on your own subjective experience? I'm not sure that can be considered reliable evidence, though, as it is not verifiable.

Its reliable evidence enough for me, and personally verified, but experience has shown me that nothing I say constitutes reliable evidence for you!!

 

[leibowde84]

Its reliable evidence enough for me, and personally verified, but experience has shown me that nothing I say constitutes reliable evidence for you!!

Subjective experience is often unreliable, which is why, on its own, it is insufficient.

 

[Koldo]

A lifetime of interaction, and spot on advice and direction.

Considering christian theology, how do you know it is God and not Satan ?
Considering spiritism, how do you know it is God and not a spirit ?

 

[Lyndon]

Subjective experience is often unreliable, which is why, on its own, it is insufficient.

Nonsense, my whole life experience is "unreliable" and "insufficient" for you. What do I care, I have a relationship with God, and God makes some decisions for me, and I make some decision based on what God speaks to me, not what God spoke to some prophet in the Bible 3000 years ago.

 

[atpollard]

So, you are basing this surety on your own subjective experience? I'm not sure that can be considered reliable evidence, though, as it is not verifiable.

I remember reading that if the sun suddenly disappeared, the gravitational effect on the Earth would continue to be exerted while the effect propagated from the sun at the speed of light. Any thoughts on how we can verify the speed that gravity propagates through space?

My only point is that some things, by their nature, lend themselves to empirical verification and some things do not.
In my experience, God simply falls into the 'NOT' category ... along with big bangs, and macro-evolution. This does not automatically make them 'false', it simply makes them not empirically verifiable. So we need to look for other evidence (like fossil records for Macro-evolution).

You will simply never measure how many grams per cc God is. He is not subject to that sort of verification.

 

[allfoak]

Our goal is to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Then we may converse with God but we can never "know" the Ancient of Days.

In order to enter the kingdom..

Gospel of Thomas
saying 22:
Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

 

[Lyndon]

Considering christian theology, how do you know it is God and not Satan ?
Considering spiritism, how do you know it is God and not a spirit ?

Ah, I'm pretty sure I'm not listening to Satan, Satan would not be guiding my life in a positive direction, God can do that though.

 

[atpollard]

Nonsense, my whole life experience is "unreliable" and "insufficient" for you. What do I care, I have a relationship with God, and God makes some decisions for me, and I make some decision based on what God speaks to me, not what God spoke to some prophet in the Bible 3000 years ago.

Setting aside your animosity for him, by what yardstick do you decide it is good enough for YOU?
Do you accept any and every thought and feeling as automatically being from God?
Do you believe there are other spirits that might lie to you?

I am curious how you decide which 'voice' to listen to.

 

[leibowde84]

Nonsense, my whole life experience is "unreliable" and "insufficient" for you. What do I care, I have a relationship with God, and God makes some decisions for me, and I make some decision based on what God speaks to me, not what God spoke to some prophet in the Bible 3000 years ago.

That's fine. You are, of course, welcome to have your own opinions on the matter.

 

[Koldo]

Ah, I'm pretty sure I'm not listening to Satan, Satan would not be guiding my life in a positive direction, God can do that though.

You didn't answer to my second question: How do you know it is not a spirit ?

Also, what do you mean by 'positive' ?
In Christianity, things going your way is not necessarily a positive thing.

 

[atpollard]

A key source for Christian arrogance, that is arrogance in Christians who use the Imperial Pronouns "We/Us/Our" to make their ideas sound as if they represent an authoritative consensus, is for them at some convenient point to claim they "Know God." They like to quote John 17:3,

"And this is eternal life, that they may know thee the only true God."

They imagine that their ability to remember and to emotionally agree with John 17:3 automatically means they do "know God." But, here is their problem. Simply remembering and agreeing with a piece of Scripture, even if it is God's Personal Word, does not mean that particular Word is then implimented in their little life. Scripture cannot be "claimed." No such "claiming" of Scripture is ever taught in Scripture. "Claiming Scripture" is a modern idea started by Little Church Grannies with Kleenex in their hands, and by Professional Church Talkers. Doing so helps Pewsitters use their imaginations and talk as substitutes for material faith.

No person can "Know God" beyond what He has specifically disclosed ABOUT Himself in Scripture. If you disagree, then tell us right now what you know about God beyond what is in The Bible.

Actually, isn't John talking about having an experiential knowledge of God rather than simply knowledge about God.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

You are asking people for the wrong type of knowledge.
I see the day of Judgement as an easy thing to comprehend. If it is a reunion between friends (you and Jesus) then it will be a happy celebration. If it is the first time that you two have ever met, then you are in a lot of trouble.

 

[Lyndon]

Setting aside your animosity for him, by what yardstick do you decide it is good enough for YOU?
Do you accept any and every thought and feeling as automatically being from God?
Do you believe there are other spirits that might lie to you?

I am curious how you decide which 'voice' to listen to.

I have experience hearing voices, and during mania episodes years ago had experience with devious spirits misleading and lying to me, Having given up drugs and alcohol for 8 years now I no longer have mania periods, I no longer hear voices just occasionally hear God give some small direction or support. Years ago I had so much more ability to hear God, I wrote down a whole "interview with God" that still makes perfect sense to me, and does not seem even today as being delusional in any way. It is the nature of communication with God to never be 100% accurate, sometimes you probably hear what you want to hear rather than Gods actual direction, the same is true for any prophet in the Bible or Koran IMHO

 

[Lyndon]

For what its worth, I have found my original manuscript, interview with God, and it is quite long, probably about a 100 page book, I tried to publish it once, but now I've decide to post in on blogspot.com in its entirety, and then I can link to it in my signature. So give me a few weeks, I'll try to get it done when I have free time, tons of tons of typing,and I'm not a good typist, to put it mildly, but if anyone benefits from it, I guess it will be worthwhile. Surprisingly the God I am communicating with makes no claim to be the creator, just the embodiment of truth and wisdom.

 

[allfoak]

Let us assume for a moment that happiness is God.
I understand the limitations, bear with me for a moment.

I am using happiness because it is universal.
Everyone knows what it means and everyone is in pursuit of it in some way.

As i make an effort to find happiness i have to have a way to verify that i am on the right path.
If i wake up miserable and stay that way through out my day i am probably in need of a change in course.

I do not use science to make this decision i use my emotions to guide me.
I do this because i am searching for happiness, not a fossil.
Once i have verified that i am not happy i can use logic to help decide on what change that is necessary to get back on the path.
Our emotions become a way to verify the most important thing that we do, which is to pursue happiness.

Now replace the pursuit of happiness with the pursuit of the knowledge of God and you are on your way to understanding a little more about yourself.
God wants us happy.
He cant talk to grumps.

 

[viole]

I know what God tells me.

Did He tell you something concerning evolution, or the age of the earth? Or what happens to atheists when they die? Or wheter the death penalty is Ok? What about how hell looks like?

I would like to cross-check His answers with the answers He gave to another Christian friend of mine who talks with God too, allegedely.

Ciao

- viole