Xmas celebration: There is no Christian command from Jesus nor God. Who, when, why?

[Soapy]

Since Jesus Christ, at no time in his life, advocated the celebration of his birth, and only commanded remembrance of his death and resurrection, who, when, and why do we do so today?

In fact, xmas (CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

It has now even become a time for ‘celebrating’ Pets, creatures, things…! Worshipping the Golden Calf of contemporaryism!!

But be that as it may!

When did Xmas first start (St Nicholas in Norway thinking to give presents to the poor children who otherwise received nothing but a stick of candy (luxury!)?)

How did it catch on (Pepsi cola?)?

Why has it strayed so far the Christian intention?

 

[ChristineM]

Since Jesus Christ, at no time in his life, advocated the celebration of his birth, and only commanded remembrance of his death and resurrection, who, when, and why do we do so today?

In fact, xmas (CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

It has now even become a time for ‘celebrating’ Pets, creatures, things…! Worshipping the Golden Calf of contemporaryism!!

But be that as it may!

When did Xmas first start (St Nicholas in Norway thinking to give presents to the poor children who otherwise received nothing but a stick of candy (luxury!)?)

How did it catch on (Pepsi cola?)?

Why has it strayed so far the Christian intention?

When, before the bible was compiled around 336.

How and why are the same. Pagans celebtated the winter solstice and Christianity needed a sweetener to attract pagans into their religion so "join our club and you can still have a winter party" did the trick

 

[Rival]

The book the book the book.

Not everything has to be in the book.

 

[Tinker Grey]

St Nicholas in Norway

St. Nick is from what would be modern day Turkey: Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia

 

[Soapy]

St. Nick is from what would be modern day Turkey: Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia

Thanks. I wasn’t serious about the detail on this matter… in the UK we only know of him in his ventures in European territory.

 

[Augustus]

When did Xmas first start

By the 2nd C people had started trying to identify Jesus' birth date with a variety of dates proposed (not 25 Dec though)

25 Dec is probably from 3rd C North Africa based on it being 9 months after the date proposed for his conception 25 March (itself being reliant on dating of Easter).

The dating was not for the purpose of celebrating the date though, Christians just like calculating stuff.

As a celebration, probably 4th C Western Roman Empire.

Christmas as we know it today, family, presents, trees, Santa, reindeers, etc: 19th C Western European + early 20th C American.

Nothing to do with Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, Mithras, Norse paganism, Constantine or whatever common internet tropes that are often proposed as its origin.

 

[Left Coast]

The book the book the book.

Not everything has to be in the book.

And ironically, the book doesn't even say everything we do has to be in the book.

 

[mangalavara]

Since Jesus Christ, at no time in his life, advocated the celebration of his birth, and only commanded remembrance of his death and resurrection, who, when, and why do we do so today?

Jesus of Nazareth also did not play any type of game with his friends and loved ones. We know that because there is no mention of him playing anything in the four canonical gospels.

Suppose he did advocate the celebration of his birth. Perhaps Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not bother to record it in their gospels because his death and resurrection were far more significant to them? As @Rival stated in post #3 in this thread, 'Not everything has to be in the book.' After all, how did the faithful during the Patriarchal age (or dispensation) practice their religion when apparently there were no scriptures?

In fact, xmas (CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

There's Christmas in the Western world, and then there's the Nativity of Our Lord elsewhere. Christianity is much more than what you see in the Western world.

When did Xmas first start (St Nicholas in Norway thinking to give presents to the poor children who otherwise received nothing but a stick of candy (luxury!)?)

I like what @Augustus wrote in post #6 in this thread.

How did it catch on (Pepsi cola?)?

Institutional churches that are centuries old.

Why has it strayed so far the Christian intention?

It never strayed far from the Christian intention. Westerners strayed far from the Christian intention.

 

[questfortruth]

CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

No problem in Eastern Orthodox Christianity -- Christmas is on 7th January.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I blame the Victorians.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/christmas/victorian-christmas-traditions/

 

[Elihoenai]

Since Jesus Christ, at no time in his life, advocated the celebration of his birth, and only commanded remembrance of his death and resurrection, who, when, and why do we do so today?

In fact, xmas (CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

It has now even become a time for ‘celebrating’ Pets, creatures, things…! Worshipping the Golden Calf of contemporaryism!!

But be that as it may!

When did Xmas first start (St Nicholas in Norway thinking to give presents to the poor children who otherwise received nothing but a stick of candy (luxury!)?)

How did it catch on (Pepsi cola?)?

Why has it strayed so far the Christian intention?

Generally Christ-Mass is the Celebration of the Universal Earthly Roman Catholic and is Yeshua Messiah's/Jesus Christ's Earthly Body.

The 2.2 Billion Members of the Earthly Church has Never been able to Wait and has Never had any Intention of Waiting:


Moses Receives The Ten Commandments

Christ-Mass is what you make it. Christ-Mass can be Spiritual or time with Family and/or Friends.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Since Jesus Christ, at no time in his life, advocated the celebration of his birth, and only commanded remembrance of his death and resurrection, who, when, and why do we do so today?

In fact, xmas (CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

It has now even become a time for ‘celebrating’ Pets, creatures, things…! Worshipping the Golden Calf of contemporaryism!!

But be that as it may!

When did Xmas first start (St Nicholas in Norway thinking to give presents to the poor children who otherwise received nothing but a stick of candy (luxury!)?)

How did it catch on (Pepsi cola?)?

Why has it strayed so far the Christian intention?

Sextus Julius Africanus (c. 160 – c. 240) was the first to decide that Jesus was conceived on March 25. December 25 is simply nine months later. The earliest Nativity feasts were a hodge podge -- different bishops celebrated it on different days. December 25 was simply one of many dates. In the fourth century, the church decided to bring some order to it all, and made December 25 the official feast of teh nativity for the Catholic Church.

Protestants by and large did not celebrate Christmas, but Catholics and Anglicans did. This lasted for a long time.

In the 19th century, two things happened that made Christmas become very popular, even among Protestants. The first was the publication of Charles Dicken's "A Christmas Carol" and the second was the publication of the poem "Twas the night before Christmas." Given that both of these literary works are secular rather than Christian, Christmas became popular even among the non-religious.

Christmas became a national holiday in the US on June 26, 1870.

 

[Soapy]

Sextus Julius Africanus (c. 160 – c. 240) was the first to decide that Jesus was conceived on March 25. December 25 is simply nine months later. The earliest Nativity feasts were a hodge podge -- different bishops celebrated it on different days. December 25 was simply one of many dates. In the fourth century, the church decided to bring some order to it all, and made December 25 the official feast of teh nativity for the Catholic Church.

Protestants by and large did not celebrate Christmas, but Catholics and Anglicans did. This lasted for a long time.

In the 19th century, two things happened that made Christmas become very popular, even among Protestants. The first was the publication of Charles Dicken's "A Christmas Carol" and the second was the publication of the poem "Twas the night before Christmas." Given that both of these literary works are secular rather than Christian, Christmas became popular even among the non-religious.

Christmas became a national holiday in the US on June 26, 1870.

So why are CHRISTIAN churches embracing Xmas when they know it is not a Jesus-sanctioned celebration? In fact, it is evident that no church calling itself ‘Christ-led’ should indulge in it.

Muslims who don’t believe in Jesus Christ celebrate it - Catholics and Protestants celebrate it….

Yet JW’s are criticised for not indulging in it!!!

 

[Wandering Monk]

Christmas celebration is a church tradition. Something wrong with that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

By the 2nd C people had started trying to identify Jesus' birth date with a variety of dates proposed (not 25 Dec though)

25 Dec is probably from 3rd C North Africa based on it being 9 months after the date proposed for his conception 25 March (itself being reliant on dating of Easter).

The dating was not for the purpose of celebrating the date though, Christians just like calculating stuff.

As a celebration, probably 4th C Western Roman Empire.

Christmas as we know it today, family, presents, trees, Santa, reindeers, etc: 19th C Western European + early 20th C American.

Nothing to do with Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, Mithras, Norse paganism, Constantine or whatever common internet tropes that are often proposed as its origin.

We hear the denial of the tie to Saturnalia, but no evidence is ever submitted.

 

[Soapy]

Christmas celebration is a church tradition. Something wrong with that?

You might like to try reading the OP.

 

[Augustus]

We hear the denial of the tie to Saturnalia, but no evidence is ever submitted.

Don't we normally start with the assumption that there should actually be evidence provided that it was based on that? Simply being at a roughly similar time of the year isn't exactly a strong case. Any day of the year would be at a roughly similar time to some other festival or holy day.

What evidence have you seen that, in your opinion, makes it a likely origin?

Other than there being no real evidence in favour of the argument, there are several reasons that make it highly implausible:

1. There are calendars with both celebrations marked on different days, so they continued to be celebrated along side each other for centuries after the dating of Xmas.
2. The dating of Xmas to the 25th significantly precedes Xmas being celebrated (maybe a century or so). The 'marketing ploy' assumption makes no sense in this context.
3. At the time it was dated to 25 Dec, Christians were still trying to distance themselves from pagans, even to the point of being killed for it. It thus is highly unlikely they were trying to appropriate pagan customs as a marketing ploy.


So, in a nutshell, its dating probably has nothing to do with wanting to hold a festival, happened at a time where Xtians were unlikely to want to steal from pagans, and when it was celebrated later, Saturnalia would still continue to be celebrated on a different day for a significant time.

 

[Soapy]

Don't we normally start with the assumption that there should actually be evidence provided that it was based on that? Simply being at a roughly similar time of the year isn't exactly a strong case. Any day of the year would be at a roughly similar time to some other festival or holy day.

What evidence have you seen that, in your opinion, makes it a likely origin?

Other than there being no real evidence in favour of the argument, there are several reasons that make it highly implausible:

1. There are calendars with both celebrations marked on different days, so they continued to be celebrated along side each other for centuries after the dating of Xmas.
2. The dating of Xmas to the 25th significantly precedes Xmas being celebrated (maybe a century or so). The 'marketing ploy' assumption makes no sense in this context.
3. At the time it was dated to 25 Dec, Christians were still trying to distance themselves from pagans, even to the point of being killed for it. It thus is highly unlikely they were trying to appropriate pagan customs as a marketing ploy.


So, in a nutshell, its dating probably has nothing to do with wanting to hold a festival, happened at a time where Xtians were unlikely to want to steal from pagans, and when it was celebrated later, Saturnalia would still continue to be celebrated on a different day for a significant time.

Surely the argument is that there was no call for a celebration attached to the birth of Jesus.

As I pointed out in the O.P., Jesus only authorised the COMMEMORATION of his death.

The reason is that if is by his death that mankind is given SALVATION (a washing clean - a SALVE) from the sin of Adam … a sin that had condemned all mankind, EVEN THOSE who had not sinned according to the law!!!

 

[Muffled]

Since Jesus Christ, at no time in his life, advocated the celebration of his birth, and only commanded remembrance of his death and resurrection, who, when, and why do we do so today?

In fact, xmas (CHRISTmas) has turned into a ritual of self indulgence, excess of drinking, buying things of more worthlessness than usefulness, pandering to commercialism, and creating a great deal of monetary debt.

It has now even become a time for ‘celebrating’ Pets, creatures, things…! Worshipping the Golden Calf of contemporaryism!!

But be that as it may!

When did Xmas first start (St Nicholas in Norway thinking to give presents to the poor children who otherwise received nothing but a stick of candy (luxury!)?)

How did it catch on (Pepsi cola?)?

Why has it strayed so far the Christian intention?

I believe everything about God is worth celebrating and the birth story is in the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

When, before the bible was compiled around 336.

How and why are the same. Pagans celebtated the winter solstice and Christianity needed a sweetener to attract pagans into their religion so "join our club and you can still have a winter party" did the trick

Although I wouldn't rule out an adversarial approach, it still may only be coincidence.