Would you vote for a poor person?

[Friend of Mara]

Not necessarily a destitute individual but someone in the true middle class of America who makes less than 100k a year. Would you vote for them? Would you vote for them if they never owned a business? Or never got a doctorate degree? What lines of prejudice would you not cross for a vote even if they were the best candidate given their stances on political issues or policy? (and by prejudice I mean general criticism not racial or hateful prejudice)

 

[Jesster]

I would. I think the country needs to create more opportunities for that exact kind of person. So who better to lead those changes? Of course, it would still have to be someone I respect in other ways. Their level success in wealth isn't a person's only quality.

 

[sun rise]

Sure, why not. If a person has a high moral/ethical standard and walks the talk as well as having policies I can agree with, I don't see any bar to me voting for that person.

 

[Stevicus]

Not necessarily a destitute individual but someone in the true middle class of America who makes less than 100k a year. Would you vote for them? Would you vote for them if they never owned a business? Or never got a doctorate degree? What lines of prejudice would you not cross for a vote even if they were the best candidate given their stances on political issues or policy? (and by prejudice I mean general criticism not racial or hateful prejudice)

I would. A lot of ordinary people of limited means might run for local office, such as school board or something like that. If they can get enough popular appeal and practical experience in politics, they might try a run at higher office. Of course, if they want any measure of funding and support from a political party, they'll have to play ball with whomever is bankrolling their campaign.

Another thing that comes to mind is that for some offices, such as city council and state legislator (at least where I live), the pay isn't really enough to live on. So, they might still have to keep their day job. If one gets to Congress, I guess that pays well enough at $174,000 a year.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'd be more likely to vote for them. Maybe they could better relate to the average person, and would be more likely to push for policies that would help them.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Seems like a middle class politician would understand things like budget and spending, a bit better.

 

[Stevicus]

I guess if it were a couple of ordinary Joes running for office, it might be something like Fred Flintstone vs. Homer Simpson in an election. That might be interesting.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Seems like a middle class politician would understand things like budget and spending, a bit better.

I doubt it, honestly.
Budgeting at an individual level is pretty different to budgeting for a business. And large businesses with indirect funding models, etc, is quite a different thing to a small business.

I could care less about their personal financial situation, but I would care about their experience in the sort of decision making they are going to need to perform. If someone had experience in these areas, and they've proven successful at these things, then I have no issue with their personal wealth. It's a non-factor.

However, to get experience in these things, they probably need to have been involved with decision making processes for larger businesses or government bodies.

(eg. I know smart and motivated people who work for water authorities in Australia. They're used to funding models, long term planning, what-if modelling, etc. They possibly aren't paid amazingly well, and would fit what you're calling 'middle-class' but they have relevant experience. Someone else might be nice, and have some broad ideas I like, but I'd be wary of voting unless they could explain in detail how the funding for such things would work, and what the real cost is, since I'd assume a level of naivete)

I'm using funding and budgeting as the examples here, but equally skills like being able to manage teams, provide governance and oversight to projects, and even just set up clear lines of communication and management all take time to develop.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not necessarily a destitute individual but someone in the true middle class of America who makes less than 100k a year. Would you vote for them? Would you vote for them if they never owned a business? Or never got a doctorate degree? What lines of prejudice would you not cross for a vote even if they were the best candidate given their stances on political issues or policy? (and by prejudice I mean general criticism not racial or hateful prejudice)

Yes, I'd vote for them, all other things being equal.
Owning a business is a useful background to have, given that some understanding of small business will help decision making, but that would in no way suggest they're not working/middle class anyway.

As mentioned in another post here, I would be concerned with particular skills someone needs to be effective in a political role. The pragmatic, day-to-day skills, which are boring and rarely factored into voting anyway.
If someone hasn't run a business (regardless of whether they own it) or managed a division, or worked in a sizeable government body, there are skills they are more likely to lack. No matter how good their ideas, these will impact their ability to implement their ideas, and can be hard to learn 'on the fly'.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I doubt it, honestly.
Budgeting at an individual level is pretty different to budgeting for a business. And large businesses with indirect funding models, etc, is quite a different thing to a small business.

I could care less about their personal financial situation, but I would care about their experience in the sort of decision making they are going to need to perform. If someone had experience in these areas, and they've proven successful at these things, then I have no issue with their personal wealth. It's a non-factor.

However, to get experience in these things, they probably need to have been involved with decision making processes for larger businesses or government bodies.

(eg. I know smart and motivated people who work for water authorities in Australia. They're used to funding models, long term planning, what-if modelling, etc. They possibly aren't paid amazingly well, and would fit what you're calling 'middle-class' but they have relevant experience. Someone else might be nice, and have some broad ideas I like, but I'd be wary of voting unless they could explain in detail how the funding for such things would work, and what the real cost is, since I'd assume a level of naivete)

I'm using funding and budgeting as the examples here, but equally skills like being able to manage teams, provide governance and oversight to projects, and even just set up clear lines of communication and management all take time to develop.

To me, this kind of assumes the rich decision-makers are competent to begin with. In the US, the rich politicians can have a very broken way of doing things. So any upset to the system can in some cases, not always (as seen in 2016) - provide results.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To me, this kind of assumes the rich decision-makers are competent to begin with. In the US, the rich politicians can have a very broken way of doing things. So any upset to the system can in some cases, not always (as seen in 2016) - provide results.

I'm just giving my opinion here, but...

There are systemic issues, and then there are competency issues, and they're not at all the same thing.
I agree that there are systemic issues at play, and one way to change that dynamic is to break the system. If people have been doing things a certain way, then stop. Get people who don't know what the 'agreed' way is. Get people who are going to look at things from a different perspective.

However, there is still a question of competency.
Whomever you put into government, and whatever system you put in place, what is not changing is that they are managing substantial amounts of public funding. This funding is then allocated to usage via a budgeting process. Someone who's only experience of a budgeting process is a personal budget is going to be on a seriously steep learning curve.

Again...I'm using budgets as an example. You could as easily talk about something like stakeholder management. This is a skill and background competency required. It's not about whether the current system is good or bad.

Final note...I was very careful to state in my posts, I could care less if the person is 'rich' or not, and this isn't about my views on existing 'rich decision-makers'. This is about segregating systemic failures from the competencies I want from an elected official. Unless you think elected officials don't need any particular skills, and simply good intentions will be enough? I would seriously dispute that.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm just giving my opinion here, but...

There are systemic issues, and then there are competency issues, and they're not at all the same thing.
I agree that there are systemic issues at play, and one way to change that dynamic is to break the system. If people have been doing things a certain way, then stop. Get people who don't know what the 'agreed' way is. Get people who are going to look at things from a different perspective.

However, there is still a question of competency.
Whomever you put into government, and whatever system you put in place, what is not changing is that they are managing substantial amounts of public funding. This funding is then allocated to usage via a budgeting process. Someone who's only experience of a budgeting process is a personal budget is going to be on a seriously steep learning curve.

Again...I'm using budgets as an example. You could as easily talk about something like stakeholder management. This is a skill and background competency required. It's not about whether the current system is good or bad.

Final note...I was very careful to state in my posts, I could care less if the person is 'rich' or not, and this isn't about my views on existing 'rich decision-makers'. This is about segregating systemic failures from the competencies I want from an elected official. Unless you think elected officials don't need any particular skills, and simply good intentions will be enough? I would seriously dispute that.

I agree with you. But I still think it important to paint another picture so that the crowd gets a full view...

In the US, it isn't about competency. That's out of the equation right now. Congress members pad their pockets by giving money to rich CEOs, and then get a portion of that money back. Each Senate member has like 20-33 million dollars despite living on less than 250,000 dollars a year regular salary. Sure they write books and sell them. But I understand how the publishing world works and it's not that simple.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To me, this kind of assumes the rich decision-makers are competent to begin with. In the US, the rich politicians can have a very broken way of doing things. So any upset to the system can in some cases, not always (as seen in 2016) - provide results.

Oooh...I meant to add something.
Assuming wealthy people have these sort of skills is a mistake. Currently the main skill the US electoral system seems to value and promote is around ability to fundraise. That's disastrous, in my opinion.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

To describe the picture further...

A CEO wants a billion dollars of government money. So he gives 1 million dollars to each Senator who signs yes to put in their personal fortunate.

Except they usually want more than a billion, and give less than a million.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To describe the picture further...

A CEO wants a billion dollars of government money. So he gives 1 million dollars to each Senator who signs yes to put in their personal fortunate.

Except they usually want more than a billion, and give less than a million.

That's corruption, pure and simple.
Rich or poor it can exust, and corruption needs to be rooted out.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

That's corruption, pure and simple.
Rich or poor it can exust, and corruption needs to be rooted out.

Here in Illinois we have a new bill to require children to get a vaccine to enter school and with no religious exemptions possible. While the bill may have merit, the people who initiated the bill apparently got $150,000 each to initiate it from medical sponsors.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, yes, yes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not necessarily a destitute individual but someone in the true middle class of America who makes less than 100k a year. Would you vote for them? Would you vote for them if they never owned a business? Or never got a doctorate degree? What lines of prejudice would you not cross for a vote even if they were the best candidate given their stances on political issues or policy? (and by prejudice I mean general criticism not racial or hateful prejudice)

Its sad wealth is a criteria for selecting a president at all.

A regular joe would certainly have a difficult time but such a person would be more in touch with how things are with the middle class. I like it but I don't see how that could ever happen with the present system as it is.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Here in Illinois we have a new bill to require children to get a vaccine to enter school and with no religious exemptions possible. While the bill may have merit, the people who initiated the bill apparently got $150,000 each to initiate it from medical sponsors.

Holy crap. How is that legal?
Do you have any info on it I could read? Seems insane.

Where I live :

• By law, a child must have an Immunisation History Statement from the Australian Immunisation Register to enrol in primary school.
• By law, an Immunisation History Statement must be provided to the primary school when enrolling a child, even if the certificate shows that the child has not received any vaccinations.
• Immunisation History Statements can be obtained from the Australian Immunisation Register.

Source : Primary school immunisation requirements in Victoria

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Holy crap. How is that legal?
Do you have any info on it I could read? Seems insane.

I'lI work on getting the sources. If I don't give you them within a couple days, do try to remind me.

Another thing you can look up in the meantime is just how much money politicians such as McConnell and others have, and the poor explanations as to how they got it.