Would You Save Jesus?

[Amechania]

The betrter question would be "If you could save Jesus by taking his place, would you do so?

 

[fantome profane]

I'm Muslims, so I don't believe he was crucified in the first place,

Maybe because someone from this thread already went back and saved him.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Maybe because someone from this thread already went back and saved him.

That slipped my mind

Seriously, you deserve a frubal for it

 

[Katzpur]

As for Christians, if Jesus was God, why would a human, a creation of Jesus, save him, being God? If Jesus wanted himself to be crucified, being God and that he knows and wills everything, I don't think a human, a creation, is in position to go against his well and try to save him.

I could be misunderstanding something in Christianity that made me say that, however!

No, you're not misunderstanding anything. What you've said is entirely accurate. A human saving God? What complete nonsense.

 

[Draupadi]

And a God being crucified by humans is logical? Wouldn't it sound better if God, the Father Himself had crucified His Son to solve the problem?

 

[Mycroft]

No, you're not misunderstanding anything. What you've said is entirely accurate. A human saving God? What complete nonsense.

But the Jesus aspect of God was, allegedly, as mortal as you and I. So therefore perfectly saveable.

 

[paarsurrey]

Would You Save Jesus?

Jesus was an innocent person.
G-d willing, I must have sided with him.

Regards

 

[sojourner]

If you traveled back into time, and God gave you the ability to alter the past but it was up to you what to do with it, and you saw the crucifixion, would you have stepped in and saved Jesus from being crucified, knowing the result would be you being fully responsible for your own sins and no savior involved, as well as the result being you prevented your God/Non-God Savior from suffering?

If you would, you're probably the most selfless person I'd know, because it'd be harder to get into heaven. If you wouldn't, could you say that you truly put Jesus before yourself?

There are several problems with this post, not the least of which is that it is such a non-issue.
First of all, Jesus is imbedded within a particular theological context. Taking him out of that context and presuming something not generally understood about him negates any of our presumptions of him as soter.
Second, one has to buy into the concept of Substitutionary Atonement in order for this to remotely work as a problem.
Third, it assumes that heaven is some sort of works-based "reward," which is also not within the generally-understood theological framework in which Jesus is imbedded.

The truth is, if I were there when Jesus was crucified, I'd be as helpless to save him as everyone else was. Jesus would die, and I would grieve and fear for my life along with the other disciples. We cannot stand outside the circumstances in which we're involved.

I can't believe that five pages have been wasted on such a meaningless exercise of baseless conjecture.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you traveled back into time, and God gave you the ability to alter the past but it was up to you what to do with it, and you saw the crucifixion, would you have stepped in and saved Jesus from being crucified, knowing the result would be you being fully responsible for your own sins and no savior involved, as well as the result being you prevented your God/Non-God Savior from suffering?

If you would, you're probably the most selfless person I'd know, because it'd be harder to get into heaven. If you wouldn't, could you say that you truly put Jesus before yourself?

The belief about the necessity of Christ's sacrifice for our salvation is a devilish superstition.
We are saved through our free will, and our merits.
so Jesus is just a victim. He was not meant to be crucified. And if I had been there, I would have tried to save him, even at cost of my life.

 

[Nakosis]

If you traveled back into time, and God gave you the ability to alter the past but it was up to you what to do with it, and you saw the crucifixion, would you have stepped in and saved Jesus from being crucified, knowing the result would be you being fully responsible for your own sins and no savior involved, as well as the result being you prevented your God/Non-God Savior from suffering?

If you would, you're probably the most selfless person I'd know, because it'd be harder to get into heaven. If you wouldn't, could you say that you truly put Jesus before yourself?

With that ability why not go back to the beginning. Stop Adam and Eve from Original Sin.

I wouldn't know what to do to "save" Jesus. Some of his Apostles tried to same him for which they were rebuked. Though I suppose stopping Adam and Eve would save Jesus.

Then you and I wouldn't exist. I like existence, so perhaps not.

 

[Estro Felino]

The truth is, if I were there when Jesus was crucified, I'd be as helpless to save him as everyone else was. Jesus would die, and I would grieve and fear for my life along with the other disciples. We cannot stand outside the circumstances in which we're involved.

Typical Pontius Pilate's attitude

 

[sojourner]

Typical Pontius Pilate's attitude

How so? Pilate was the one who rubber-stamped his execution. Do you understand how helpless the average person was in the Roman empire -- including Judea? Even if you should be able to time-travel, you're still bound to the circumstances in which you find yourself. It's not like you'd automatically have super-powers. In that world, in that time period, you'd be a peasant with no political clout whatsoever. it's got nothing to do with Pilate.

 

[Estro Felino]

How so? Pilate was the one who rubber-stamped his execution. Do you understand how helpless the average person was in the Roman empire -- including Judea? Even if you should be able to time-travel, you're still bound to the circumstances in which you find yourself. It's not like you'd automatically have super-powers. In that world, in that time period, you'd be a peasant with no political clout whatsoever. it's got nothing to do with Pilate.

We all can do something, even if it's little, to avoid injustices. But we all wash our hands of those matters-
so the 99 % of the people are like Pilate

 

[sojourner]

We all can do something, even if it's little, to avoid injustices. But we all wash our hands of those matters-
so the 99 % of the people are like Pilate

But that wasn't the scenario presented by the OP. In the OP scenario, we're asked whether we would save Jesus. I maintain that we would be helpless to do so in those circumstances. You're obfuscating an already very, very cloudy issue.

 

[Estro Felino]

But that wasn't the scenario presented by the OP. In the OP scenario, we're asked whether we would save Jesus. I maintain that we would be helpless to do so in those circumstances. You're obfuscating an already very, very cloudy issue.

No. we are not helpless. I would have protested against the synhedrium, even at cost of being arrested and being killed.
Yes, Jesus would have still been crucified...but at least my conscience would have been clean.
And my goal is not to turn myself into a martyr: but to fulfill justice. evil is intolerable to me

 

[sojourner]

I would have protested against the synhedrium, even at cost of being arrested and being killed.

Again, that simply doesn't fit the parameters of the OP. You would have protested and it wouldn't have saved Jesus.

That is, to see the perpetrators (Caiaphas) in Hell for eternity.

Somehow, this doesn't smack of "Love your enemies; pray for your persecutors."


Just sayin'.

 

[Estro Felino]

Somehow, this doesn't smack of "Love your enemies; pray for your persecutors."

Just sayin'.

But I do love my enemies. I do love Caiaphas. I hope he didn't suffer. I hope he had a healthy, long and peaceful life.
But if he wants to go to Hell, I can't stop him. I can't help it.
It's Caiaphas who didn't love me, given that he would have killed me for saving Jesus

 

[Estro Felino]

Again, that simply doesn't fit the parameters of the OP. You would have protested and it wouldn't have saved Jesus.

Actually the OP doesn't specify what would have happened if we had tried to save him.

 

[sojourner]

But I do love my enemies. I do love Caiaphas. I hope he didn't suffer. I hope he had a healthy, long and peaceful life.
But if he wants to go to Hell, I can't stop him. I can't help it.
It's Caiaphas who didn't love me, given that he would have killed me for saving Jesus

I do love Caiaphas.

But you originally said in post #55 that your goal was:

to see the perpetrators (Caiaphas) in Hell for eternity

The two statement simply don't jibe. You don't wish hell on people whom you love.

If you can save Jesus in this scenario, you can save Caiaphas.

 

[sojourner]

Actually the OP doesn't specify what would have happened if we had tried to save him.

Yes. It does.