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Would You Retaliate?

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
If you were President and Putin let fly the nukes, would you retaliate in kind?

I wouldn't. Russia could not contend with the military might of NATO regardless of nuclear retaliation, and Putin would likely incur the wrath of the world beyond all hope.

And, I could not morally live with the weight of the destruction regardless of who started it.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
If you were President and Putin let fly the nukes, would you retaliate in kind?
President of Ukraine? If I were president of Ukraine yes, I would totally do it.

If I were in charge of NATO? I have a violent imagination; but one thing that might give me pause is that I would think of this as an attempt to provoke me into a foolish action. Tactical. One of the tricks of defeating a stronger enemy is to lure them into striking where and when you want them to. If you can get them to show their thought process it always gives you an advantage. You can learn much from that first attack. Notice that Russia has not sent everything it can to attack Ukraine. That is a tactical decision.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
President of Ukraine? If I were president of Ukraine yes, I would totally do it.

If I were in charge of NATO? I have a violent imagination; but one thing that might give me pause is that I would think of this as an attempt to provoke me into a foolish action. Tactical. One of the tricks of defeating a stronger enemy is to lure them into striking where and when you want them to. If you can get them to show their thought process it always gives you an advantage. You can learn much from that first attack. Notice that Russia has not sent everything it can to attack Ukraine. That is a tactical decision.

I was thinking of the US, but thanks for your answer. :)
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
President of Ukraine? If I were president of Ukraine yes, I would totally do it.

If I were in charge of NATO? I have a violent imagination; but one thing that might give me pause is that I would think of this as an attempt to provoke me into a foolish action. Tactical. One of the tricks of defeating a stronger enemy is to lure them into striking where and when you want them to. If you can get them to show their thought process it always gives you an advantage. You can learn much from that first attack. Notice that Russia has not sent everything it can to attack Ukraine. That is a tactical decision.

Would the fact that potentially hundreds of thousands of innocent people would die affect your decision to retaliate?

I wouldn't even call such a strike "retaliation": the ones who launched a first strike could take shelter in a bunker or somewhere immune from radioactive fallout, so retaliation wouldn't be achieved. Instead, a reactive strike would effectively amount to mass murder of civilians for the actions of a few people--in Russia's case, unelected dictators to boot.

For these reasons, among others, I don't think I would launch a nuke in response to a first strike. Tactically, it would achieve nothing for self-defense due to mutually assured destruction. Ethically, it would be a major act of mass murder or even genocide.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Would the fact that potentially hundreds of thousands of innocent people would die affect your decision to retaliate?
Yes that would.

I wouldn't even call such a strike "retaliation": the ones who launched a first strike could take shelter in a bunker or somewhere immune from radioactive fallout, so retaliation wouldn't be achieved. Instead, a reactive strike would effectively amount to mass murder of civilians for the actions of a few people--in Russia's case, unelected dictators to boot.

For these reasons, among others, I don't think I would launch a nuke in response to a first strike. Tactically, it achieves nothing for self-defense. Ethically, it's a major act of mass murder or even genocide.
Its definitely genocide, but if they launched first I might. Its difficult for me to think of this from a president's perspective. From my perspective I am likely to be killed by this war, so I don't think about it like genocide. I live in the US, and there are missiles pointed at me. It is not as if I am sitting in some safe place sniping countries. Its a trade. They die and we die, too. There is a feeling that it is fair. I think of it as mutual destruction.

I've been living under the threat of this kind of death for my entire life, so in a way its comforting to imagine that it finally ends. Its like a relief in a way.

Now...if I were to survive then I would feel odd about it.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Well one of Putin's advisors resigned today, so people close to Putin are beginning to come to their senses.

I could see Putin order a withdraw of troops from Kyiv and order a nuclear missile strike in the middle of the city and wait and see what NATO does. This would of course kill Zelenskyy and the government, and probably the military leadership. This would still not be an attack on a NATO member so arguably Putin could get away with it. I would wonder if this order would be obeyed, but i suspect it would be death to disobey. At some point someone will push the button.

Frankly I have been wrong about Putin so far so my impulse to think he wouldn't do it feels like my personal wish. I can see Putin do it. At some point he has nothing to lose. Ukraine has no nuclear missiles. What comes after?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Yes that would.


Its definitely genocide, but if they launched first I might. Its difficult for me to think of this from a president's perspective. From my perspective I am likely to be killed by this war, so I don't think about it like genocide. I live in the US, and there are missiles pointed at me. It is not as if I am sitting in some safe place sniping countries. Its a trade. They die and we die, too. There is a feeling that it is fair. I think of it as mutual destruction.

I've been living under the threat of this kind of death for my entire life, so in a way its comforting to imagine that it finally ends. Its like a relief in a way.

Now...if I were to survive then I would feel odd about it.
My thoughts are that if Putin fires missiles at targets they will be limited to Europe. That means some damage to Russia in retaliation but not the total destruction that the USA can dish out.

It's amazing the influence of one man on the world.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
If it were an American city that was nuked, then yes, I would respond with overwhelming force. I respect and admire Vladimir Putin- and Russia as a country- but I am loyal to America.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
If you were President and Putin let fly the nukes, would you retaliate in kind?

I wouldn't. Russia could not contend with the military might of NATO regardless of nuclear retaliation, and Putin would likely incur the wrath of the world beyond all hope.

And, I could not morally live with the weight of the destruction regardless of who started it.
I would retaliate instantly, if he fired nukes and there were no responds besides sending in troops, he would continue to fire them. So I would retaliate and it wouldn't be pretty.

Now the interesting thing is if he nukes Ukraine, it could potentially affect EU and some of the other countries around Ukraine.

Depending on the effect on surrounding countries, if it had little effect, I wouldn't fire instantly. but I would give him a warning that if he fired more, that I would retaliate as well.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
If it were an American city that was nuked, then yes, I would respond with overwhelming force. I respect and admire Vladimir Putin- and Russia as a country- but I am loyal to America.
There's nothing to respect about Putin, at least in this offensive. He has bungled it badly. There's nothing to respect about a sociopath, either. Russia is another matter. The people there love and suffer just like everyone else. They don't deserve to be nuked.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Yes, otherwise we'd turn the world over to him. But my retaliation would be proportional - nuke for nuke.

And absolutely yes I'd target him and I'd make sure he knows it ahead of time.
 
If you were President and Putin let fly the nukes, would you retaliate in kind?

I wouldn't. Russia could not contend with the military might of NATO regardless of nuclear retaliation, and Putin would likely incur the wrath of the world beyond all hope.

And, I could not morally live with the weight of the destruction regardless of who started it.

When you don't respond to a nuke attack, you tell them they can always make you back down and they have a free hand to do what they like.

You don't buy peace, you guarantee war.

You don't have to nuke Moscow, but not responding in kind is admitting first strikes are the way to win.

Even if you nuke oil fields or the like rather than a town it makes them think before launching another nuke.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
but one thing that might give me pause is that I would think of this as an attempt to provoke me into a foolish

This was my thought. If there were to be a nuclear launch by Russia, this would be there reasoning. To get NATO to blunder the response.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
If you were President and Putin let fly the nukes, would you retaliate in kind?

I wouldn't. Russia could not contend with the military might of NATO regardless of nuclear retaliation, and Putin would likely incur the wrath of the world beyond all hope.

And, I could not morally live with the weight of the destruction regardless of who started it.
Interesting topic

Bhagavad Gita deals exactly with this topic:
"To follow your Dharma or to not follow your Dharma"
Not all are soldiers (ksyatria kaste/Dharma)
Soldier's Dharma differs from business man's Dharma

To answer your question:
I am not a ksyatria, hence I would not retaliate
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Yes, otherwise we'd turn the world over to him. But my retaliation would be proportional - nuke for nuke.

And absolutely yes I'd target him and I'd make sure he knows it ahead of time.

But, would you need to retaliate with nukes? The firepower of the US alone right now is enough to defeat Russia (especially now that we've seen them in action), let alone the combined forces of NATO.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
But, would you need to retaliate with nukes? The firepower of the US alone right now is enough to defeat Russia (especially now that we've seen them in action), let alone the combined forces of NATO.
I think you would need to retaliate with nukes because the ability to sustain a supply of conventional weapons would likely be vapourised along with the cities when you were struck with nukes.

But a pre-emptive nuclear strike would be out of the question for me. They would have to strike first.

Although mind you if I had the means to take out Putin with a drone strike I wouldn't bother with nuclear retaliation.

In my opinion.
 
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